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What is it with Europe

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6-Oct-10 3:52 am

OK so now I'm thinking (never a good thing) why does Europe have so little sucess?

There is constantly BFP's on the USA board but hardly any on here????

What is different? I know we are on a smaller scale than the Usa board but still we should see some babies born?

I can only think of pink princess a long time ago, sweetaza ans saira who are far along in pregnancy or had babies??

On ther fertilty friends board these clinics are constantly getting BFP's on 'normal' IVF cycles so whats happening???

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6-Oct-10 4:14 am

I know x I am worried nowxx hows it going for you?

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6-Oct-10 5:26 am
I have thought long and hard about this, especially as I had a failed cycle in Europe followed by a successful one In the US. I think I calculated that the IG success rate for girls that have cycled in Europe this year (including myself) is about 5% whereas the last 7 girls on IG to have cycled with Dr Potter have all got BFPs. I put this down to: 1. Worse protocols and cheaper med's used (protocols ok for young girls being donors but not ideal for those in their 30's) 2. Experience of the clinic doing the PGD biopsy, especially the skill of the embryologist. 3. The additional med's taken after ER in the US (I took antibiotics, steroids, baby aspirin and estradiol injections in my US cycle which I did not take for my European cycle). 4. The lab set-up and technology used- I have read articles about how the type of air conditioning system within a lab can improve success by 50% - I doubt the European clinics have such good technology in place. 5. Success rates at European clinics seem to be driven by girls using young donors and putting back 3-4 embryos. Us GS girls are older in comparison and rarely put back more than 2 embryos. 6. Maybe the acupunture you can do before and after transfer at HRC helps. 7. Maybe the embryo grading is more rigid in the US and when people transfer grade 1 embryos in Europe, these would be graded much lower in the US. Who knows, but these are some of my thoughts.

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6-Oct-10 9:09 am

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6-Oct-10 9:18 am

DreamingMaybeOneDay:
2. Experience of the clinic doing the PGD biopsy, especially the skill of the embryologist. 3. The additional med's taken after ER in the US (I took antibiotics, steroids, baby aspirin and estradiol injections in my US cycle which I did not take for my European cycle).

This. I am sure it has a lot to do with the fact it is COMPLETELY LEGAL in US, so they are more experienced, can do more research related to GS and so they just know more about it. I am sure the treatment for infertile patients will be about the same.

 

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6-Oct-10 1:06 pm
I correct my Dr Potter stat above, another girl (from Europe) has just posted a BFP from Dr Potter making his success rate 100% for the last 8 IG girls to have cycled with him. Worth every penny extra IMO.

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6-Oct-10 1:42 pm

 Hi Dreamingmaybeoneday

 You mentioned the different protocols in the USA to Europe - pls can you explain what the USA protocols are like.

I think a lot of the Euorpe ladies are on Gonal f and merional?

I am going to ask about using the extra medications after transfer.

Were there any other tips like drink lots of water, milk take xx supplements??? All tips are so welcome!

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6-Oct-10 6:42 pm

This all plays on my mind with having been to SART in Bangkok.  Although I transferred a pretty ok blast (she actually went from Grade 3 on day 4 to Grade 2 on transfer day 5) and something tells me she didn't have a hope in hell of sticking.  I actually think all the meds the Drs use in the US has some part to play in the BFP v BFN from elsewhere.  The only meds I was on was Lucrin, Puregon and Progesterone sups after ER and antibiotics for a few days after ER.  Not much compared with the US!

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7-Oct-10 12:51 am

prettyflamingo:

All these thoughts seem valid, and I know how knowledgeable you are DMOD so have obviously spent a long time looking into things.. I too am worried about low rate of BFP in Europe, esp. when very often perfect embryos are transferred. This is why I am getting closer to wanting to cycle with HRC despite the additional expense.  I am praying DR Potter accepts me as a patient at 39.  Soooo old for this, but don't want to give up on the dream just yet.

You're not too old! 

I'm 40 and Dr Potter has told me he considers this young.

I'm from Australia but I also worried about the stats of actually getting pregnant if I went to SART in Thailand so we have opted to spend more and go straight to HRC...  The current BFP's give me hope but I know that I am older than those girls... 

It all seems a bit real to me today though as Lori just emailed me my schedule for meds, etc.  omg!  I'm REALLY doing this!  Finally!!!

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Cycle 1 - HRC - arrived in USA 4/12/10 and u/s 6/12/10 (ER postponed) / second u/s 7/12/10 / ER postponed from 8/12/10 to 9/12/10 - 15 eggs retrieved (all mature), 14 fertilised! / ET postponed from 13/12/10 to 14/12/10    Out of 14 only 2 were normal and both were boys - DEVASTATED!!!! 

Cycle 2 - HRC - arrived in USA 4/17/11 and u/s 4/18/11 (ER postponed) / second u/s 4/19/11 /, ER postponed from 4/20/11 to 4/21/11 - 14 eggs retrieved, 12 mature, 12 fertilised, 11 sent for GSN, ET postponed from 4/25/11 to 4/16/11 - only one normal emby but xx - BFN!  :(

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7-Oct-10 1:43 am

Well, we have now decided we are going to HRC in March next year.

After our 4 failed FETs cycling at SART, I also think it must be the different drugs and experience that gives US an upper hand.

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7-Oct-10 12:03 pm
I agree with this. And all the other things you said Dreaming! :-)

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7-Oct-10 12:04 pm
Persistence:

Well, we have now decided we are going to HRC in March next year.

After our 4 failed FETs cycling at SART, I also think it must be the different drugs and experience that gives US an upper hand.

Good decision persistence, and I am sorry about your FETs..

Love Ya!Baby Boy-03Baby Boy-05,  Sad Flower-10Sad Flower-11

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7-Oct-10 12:07 pm
LittleLadyBug4Me"]

[quote user="DreamingMaybeOneDay:

2. Experience of the clinic doing the PGD biopsy, especially the skill of the embryologist. 3. The additional med's taken after ER in the US (I took antibiotics, steroids, baby aspirin and estradiol injections in my US cycle which I did not take for my European cycle).[/quote]

This. I am sure it has a lot to do with the fact it is COMPLETELY LEGAL in US, so they are more experienced, can do more research related to GS and so they just know more about it. I am sure the treatment for infertile patients will be about the same.

 

Littleladybug, we can not pm eathother anymore, because we dont have gold! I hope you are ok!

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IVF/PGD #3, DOR 

Moving on...

 

 

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7-Oct-10 12:52 pm
On protocols, firstly Dr Potter was very specific about his down reg: I did 3 weeks of BCP to prevent a dominant follicle, he then insisted I used lupron and no European equivalent. He almost said ok to me using buserlin but was very negative about his experience using the nasal spray, as he wanted a precise dose administered at the same time daily 2. My first cycle I did not use Gonal F - only straight HMG (menopur or merional) - I do not think this is as good as a combined protocol, but yes some European girls also use combined. 3. After a failed cycle on the long protocol, US girls are more likely to do a flare protocol, estrogen priming protocol or A/ACP protocol -but I don't think any European girls have used these. The only alternative protocol offered in Europe seems to be the antagonist protocol. I have just bumped another thread with all my tips and a list of the medication I took after ET. Thread is called: a list of hints and tips.

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Cycle 1 IVF/PGD in Europe Feb10 Fresh SET-Chemical Preg, May10 FET-BFN

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7-Oct-10 2:18 pm

Busy Butterfly in fairness to DreamingMaybeoneday, I did ask her for her view.

"You mentioned the different protocols in the USA to Europe - pls can you explain what the USA protocols are like."

and added where there any hints and tips? - she has not posted this off her own back. I asked for her view and I welcome it as well as I welcome your view, which I feel your comments about guarantees are all so true and a great reality check for us all.

Knowledge is power at the end of the day and if people don't share then we can't not make our own judgements.

I do agree the majority is down to luck but if there is anything I can do to turn that is my favour through advice then I welcome it and then I can choose to act on it or not.

It is a tuff journey and If you are happy to share your experiences I am sure many of us will learn through your posts. If your experiences help just one person then it is worth the post.

I wish you the happiness you deserve and fulfil your own dreams.

My dream  tonight might have to change from wishing on a baby girl to wishing I survive a cancer threat and hope nothing cuts off living and to see my 3 boys grow big and strong- the world is a hard place.

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First IVF cycle (Oct 10) stopped due to no response what so ever on the drugs!

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