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How does the embryo 'stick'? And other random questions...

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10-Aug-10 2:50 am
This has been bothering me today. How exactly does the embryo not just fall out after being implanted in the uterus? I think I would be scared to cough, or stand upright, or ANYTHING in case I lost it.

Also, when the RE puts the embryo back, can they see it on a scan? I know it's mircoscopically small, but thought they might be able to see the liquid it is in, to see where it lands?

Also, why does it not work sometimes? For instance, if you put back a Grade A embryo and it didn't stick, what could be the possible reasons for that?

Thanks,

Fulla xxx

 

Tracey

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10-Aug-10 3:47 am

I read that sometimes embies do not fair well when handled and "messed" about with too much or do not survive due to the handling involved in IVF and then the environment has to be correct,  hospitable is favourable of course, prob why their is so many drugs and monitoring before actual transferre of the little critters.

I really hope I get a sticky one or two when it is my turn to try PGD/IVFStick out tongue.

I cant answer your other questions, I dont know how they can see an embie on a scan!! Its really really tiny...they say its the size of a full stop > .

 

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10-Aug-10 5:42 am

FullaDoll:
This has been bothering me today. How exactly does the embryo not just fall out after being implanted in the uterus? I think I would be scared to cough, or stand upright, or ANYTHING in case I lost it.

The dr explained it to me but not sure if I can do it as well. On the pics it looks like there is a big space in the uterus where hthe embryo looks like it can just fall out Illu cervix.jpg when in reality the sides of the uterus actually touch (or something like that) Illu female pelvis.jpg so the embryo really can't 'fall' out as such. I hope that makes sense. Because I thought similar to you until the doc told me.

I don't know about seeing the embryo when they put it back in. Do they maybe see a 'whoosh' of the fluid from the catheter or something when they put it in the uterus?. And then I think the scientists checks under the microscope to make sure the embryo still isn't in the catheter.  

I think the above is what happens. But I'm not 100% sure.

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10-Aug-10 6:34 am
Thanks for the biology lesson Chooks :-). So, it can't actually fall out? That's reassuring! Why do you have to do 3 days bed rest though?

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10-Aug-10 6:36 am
Bed rest is so the uterus doesn't contract and prevent implantation, I think.

 

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10-Aug-10 6:46 am

Are you planning on cycling?  Good to see you back. 

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10-Aug-10 6:55 am
Hey Sadie! I love your avatar, it always cheers me up!

Yes, I guess I should come out of the closet now, we are cycling this month. I was determined after our last cycle was cancelled that I was going to give up, and I really meant it. But I just have to try.

I stayed off IG for a while, because I didn't want my negativity to rub off on anybody else on here. But I am back, with a new RE and a more positive frame of mind.

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10-Aug-10 7:06 am
FullaDoll:
This has been bothering me today. How exactly does the embryo not just fall out after being implanted in the uterus? I think I would be scared to cough, or stand upright, or ANYTHING in case I lost it.

Also, when the RE puts the embryo back, can they see it on a scan? I know it's mircoscopically small, but thought they might be able to see the liquid it is in, to see where it lands?

Also, why does it not work sometimes? For instance, if you put back a Grade A embryo and it didn't stick, what could be the possible reasons for that?

Thanks,

Fulla xxx

I was just researching this the other day and this article was very informative...it's Long, sorry..."Embryo 'glue' study may raise chances of successful births.......Scientists have discovered the "glue" that helps to stick an early human embryo to the wall of the womb – a critical first stage in every successful pregnancy. The findings might eventually be used to improve the success rates of in vitro fertilisation (IVF) as well as lowering the risk of pre-eclampsia, the most common cause of death in first-time pregnancies. A week-old embryo must attach itself firmly to the womb to trigger the correct growth of the placenta. These first stages of implantation are critical, yet little is known on how the embryo does it. Researchers from the University of California at San Francisco have identified the molecular sticking process that starts to take place when an early embryo is ready to implant itself in the womb about six days or more after fertilisation. Failure to implant properly is estimated to result in the failure of about three in every four pregnancies, so understanding the first critical step could provide important insights into ways of improving the chances of a successful birth. The scientists found that molecules on the surface cells of the embryo and in substances secreted in the lining of the womb began to interact to create a viscous environment, according to Susan Fisher, who led the study published in the journal Science. "It's like a tennis ball rolling across a surface covered in syrup. The embryo's journey along the uterine wall is arrested by the sticky interaction," Professor Fisher said. The scientists found that the outer cells of the embryo began to produce a protein called L-selectin, while the cells of the uterus became enriched with carbohydrates, which had a tendency to stick to the protein. By coating latex beads with the type of carbohydrates found in the uterus lining, the scientists demonstrated they stuck readily to the outer cells of an embryo, called the trophoblast, at the critical stage of development when it was normally ready for implantation. A continual process of sticking and unsticking slows down the embryo on its journey through the uterus until it eventually stops and an implantation begins. Implantation proper is caused by cells from the embryo invading and replacing the cells of the uterus lining in order to form a placenta. A similar sticking process was first identified about 10 years ago. It allows white blood cells to attach themselves to the walls of a blood vessel when they reach an area of inflammation. The belief now is that embryo implantation is essentially the same molecular interaction. Professor Fisher said that knowing how implantation was triggered should help to improve the pregnancy rates among IVF mothers, whose embryos frequently failed to implant. It should also help to avoid pre-eclampsia, which she said could be caused by the placenta not attaching properly to the womb, leading to oxygen starvation of the foetus and raised the blood pressure of the mother. The work could help to explain why some women have a low fertility. They may have a uterus lining that does not produce the necessary carbohydrate molecules to allow the early embryo to stick to the womb. The scientists demonstrated that cells taken from the uterine lining were sometimes more receptive to implantation than at other times.

 

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10-Aug-10 7:24 am
That's really interesting, Mezzodiva! Do you think drinking lots of milk in the run up to ET would make your womb lining more 'sticky'? It is said to make you more mucousy, I wonder if it's the same thing?

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10-Aug-10 7:37 am
Somebody here mentioned embryo glue a few weeks ago. I googled a ton and it seems many REs and embryologists scoff at the idea. I think it was developed by CCRM? Not 100% sure, but if so everything they touch turns to baby so it must work.

 

Taking an IG break

My best wishes to all TTC and congrats to all that get their babies

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10-Aug-10 7:38 am
What's 'CCRM'?

Smart is the new hot

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10-Aug-10 7:39 am
FullaDoll:
Hey Sadie! I love your avatar, it always cheers me up!

Yes, I guess I should come out of the closet now, we are cycling this month. I was determined after our last cycle was cancelled that I was going to give up, and I really meant it. But I just have to try.

I stayed off IG for a while, because I didn't want my negativity to rub off on anybody else on here. But I am back, with a new RE and a more positive frame of mind.

Hip hip hooray!

 

Taking an IG break

My best wishes to all TTC and congrats to all that get their babies

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10-Aug-10 7:41 am
grits:
Hip hip hooray!
Thanks Grits!

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10-Aug-10 7:48 am

 You will actually see "something" go into your uterus during ET. In fact, it was very clear during my first cycle and quite an emotional moment.  During my last cycle, it was much less obvious and I actually do think it may have "fallen" out, but that's another story.

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10-Aug-10 7:51 am

You just see the fluid on the u/s going in during ET. The embryo is too small on u/s and can only be seen under the microscope by the embryologist at that point.  It can't fall out once it makes it into you.  Some clinics don't recommend bedrest at all. 

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