This may be a ridiculous question!

Hi Girls!

I have looked into gender swaying a little for a girl, as I may like to try next bub.

 I have had quite a difficult time reading my ovulation signs in the past, and each time I have had a bub, I am sure my cycle has changed completely, even though it is always a regular length cycle.  I am sure that I ovulated quite late with my first bub - I was away from hubby for a few days, and the pregnancy test did not read positive until days after I missed my period (which by then I was certain anyway as I have NEVER been late), and then doctors were concerned because HCG levels were so low at the beginning, behind normal ranges.. etc etc.  That all added, in my mind, to my bub being a bit behind the average 14 days that they take it from usually.

 I have tried temperatures (NEVER get that right!) ferning tests (again, never seemed to show the correct timing, if anything at all!!) - CM often changes from cycle to cycle, although this is probably the most indicative way I know, and also cramping often gives me an idea.

Last cycle, I thought I would ovulate around day 17 ( as had been usual, or so I thought!), then next thing at day 14 I am thinking, I think I am O today!  I tried OPKs every day afterwards, but never positive, so I am assuming that it did happen that day.

Anyway!!!  My question is this:

If you are going along, doing all the girl methods, vinegar douche, tampon etc, if you have in fact ALREADY conceived and not realised (thinking you were ovulating later), DO the vinegar douches etc DO ANY HARM to the newly conceived bub????

I apologise if the question is silly, and I realise most people are much better at charting and pinpointing ovulation etc, but I honestly have a hard time doing it!  I am sure my body sends out different signs every month!!!
Thank you!

 I'm pretty sure it's unsafe to douche during pregnancy and I'm also certain that some of the supplements on the TTC Girl program (cranberry, vitex, etc.) should not be taken in the TWW.

That being said, it's unlikely that your body produces new and different fertility signals every single month. First off, there just aren't that many fertility signs for the body to choose from  and secondly, our bodies are *generally* into patterns. People would not be able to chart fertility for this many years if that weren't true. Yes, there are always weird situations, but those don't happen every single month, kwim?

I think you should try charting again and perhaps using a fertility monitor instead of OPKs. Using a program like Fertility Friend will give you a place to chart ALL your signs, so even if they don't make sense to you, the computer program may pick up on patterns. And if that fails, you can share your chart w/us here and we can help you figure out what's going on. It takes several months to see the patterns develop, so plan to just observe for 3 months at least and go from there. HTH!

autumnfun:

DO the vinegar douches etc DO ANY HARM to the newly conceived bub????

NOPE!

Tamara:

autumnfun:

DO the vinegar douches etc DO ANY HARM to the newly conceived bub????

NOPE!

 

Really? Then why is there a warning label on every commercial douche package not to use during pregnancy? Plus, the US Health & Human Services Office (as well as Planned Parenthood & ACOG it seems) also advise against it:

Can douching hurt my chances of having a healthy pregnancy?

It may. Limited research shows that douching may make it more difficult for a woman to get pregnant. In women trying to get pregnant, those who douched more than once a week took the longest to get pregnant.

Studies also show that douching may boost a woman's chance of ectopic pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancy is when the fertilized egg attaches to the inside of the fallopian tube instead of the uterus. If left untreated, ectopic pregnancy can be life-threatening. It can also make it difficult for a woman to get pregnant in the future.

From: http://www.womenshealth.gov/faq/douching.cfm#K

 

Ok, thanks Tamara, that's a relief, just all those ideas of incapacitating sperm etc had some weird ideas flying around my head!!!

As for different signals every month, as I said, they are not different EVERY month, but often unpredictable.  I have tried between bubs for around 4 years now, checking out different methods etc, and I have actually been using Fertility Friend, which to this date has not been able to predict much for me either (I think it is as confused as I am!!!!).  I definitely don't rely on temperature, as I have found that to be here there and everywhere every time I take it, or averaging out to not have any significant peaks or drops.  Ferning tests were ridiculous.  I had ferning at the most ridiculous times of the month and then not when it should have been (yes, by now you are thinking "She is not doing ANY of the testing the right way!"), and OPKs, well I haven't used them consistently enough to know yet.  But CM is fairly consistent, yet as I say, I do change slightly from month to month, and every now and then seem to have a big change.

And yes, I will probably be seeking help from others when seriously beginning a girl attempt!!  I would be happy if someone could tell me exactly what was going on!

 Thanks so much for your replies

girls2mama:

Really? Then why is there a warning label on every commercial douche package not to use during pregnancy?

 

first off what we are doing to lower pH is not 'douching' like they are talking about.  second, they say not to do it in pg because it it will cause a yeast infection.  But this will not damage the baby unless you go untreated (untreated yi can cause you to go into labor)

Ok, so the pregnancy warning is more to do with altering your uterine environment which may make you more prone to an infection?

I'm more concerned about the fact that a bub has just been conceived and then a vinegar douche or tampon is used and it somehow affects the bub itself?

autumnfun:

I'm more concerned about the fact that a bub has just been conceived and then a vinegar douche or tampon is used and it somehow affects the bub itself?

the baby can not be affected by it, it is safe

Tamara:

first off what we are doing to lower pH is not 'douching' like they are talking about.  second, they say not to do it in pg because it it will cause a yeast infection.  But this will not damage the baby unless you go untreated (untreated yi can cause you to go into labor)

 

Actually I think it's the force of the fluid/pressure that can make an ectopic pregnancy more likely.

girls2mama:

Tamara:

first off what we are doing to lower pH is not 'douching' like they are talking about.  second, they say not to do it in pg because it it will cause a yeast infection.  But this will not damage the baby unless you go untreated (untreated yi can cause you to go into labor)

 

Actually I think it's the force of the fluid/pressure that can make an ectopic pregnancy more likely.

Just to further complicate matters, I actually did a bit of research on this issue and what I read was that douching has been linked to ectopic pg not because of the force of the douche because that cannot get up into your tubes at all.  But it's because douching frequently, causes constant irritation of the cervix, leading to bacteria/fungal infections (and I mean way more serious ones than YI) that then migrate up inside the uterus and tubes and cause scarring that then make you more likely to have an ectopic.

The advisory on the box, I would suspect, has more to do with the fact that later on in pg your cervix begins to open up and it would be much easier to introduce bacteria/fungi into your uterus by douching.  Also, if you had a rupture of your membranes and then douched, that would be disastrous for the baby. 

i'd like to interject also and ask... so would acijel or replens also cause this same issue?

sunshineslp:

i'd like to interject also and ask... so would acijel or replens also cause this same issue?

No, though I would not use either during my last trimester of pregnancy because that's when your cervix really starts to open up.

To understand why douching can cause ectopic and yet why it is safe for us to douche, you have to know the history of douching.  For many decades during the 20th c. the vagina was seen as 'dirty' and so doctors advised their patients to be douching regularly.  This was just a part of the larger anti-female attitude of the times, which also included medically invasive childbirth procedures, giving women hysterectomies when they didn't need them, and discouraging breastfeeding.

So anyway, many doctors told their patients to douche once or twice a week or maybe just after AF, but some women took it to extremes and douched every day and also repeatedly after sex, using the force of a douche bag which is considerable.  As you can imagine, the equipment they used wasn't always clean, and just the fact that they were douching forcefully every day, and sometimes twice a day, for years and years, led to irritation and infections.  This irritation and infection led to scarring in the cervix, infection and scarring in the tubes, etc.  And scarring in the tubes is what causes the correlation between douching and ectopic pregnancies, because if there is scar tissue in the tubes, the bean simply can't make its way through the scar tissue to get to the uterus.  It will find a cozy spot in the tubes and implant there.

It just seems very unlikely to me that enough quantity of a gently applied douche could manage to get through the closed cervix, all the way up through the uterus, then take a 90 degree turn into the Fallopian tubes (see picture), with enough force to do anything at all to the bean.  I mean it would have to be shot up there like a fire hose to do that.  Can douching introduce bacteria and fungi, certainly, but these microorganisms (like sperm) are microscopic and can fit thorugh the closed cervix.

37% of all women douche at least once a month, and yet the rate of ectopic pg is roughly 2 in 100 - meaning that most women who douche never have an ectopic and plenty of women who have never douched in their lives still get an ectopic pg.  If you have PID, inflammation, infection, and scarring which can be caused or aggravated by chronic and frequent douching, then that raises your risk of ectopic 10 times.  

But we aren't going to be douching every day for years and years, we will douche gently before a few of our attempts for a few months at most, and then we might use a small amount of an after solution that is not applied with any force at all, and of course we will make very sure our equipment is scrupulously clean.  This is just not at all the same circumstances that lead to ectopic pregnancy.

The admonition against douching during pg has way more to do with the fact that the cervix is beginning to open and so you are at greater risk for bacteria/fungi getting into the uterus.  A very forceful douche might even wash away the mucus plug leading to pre-term labor.