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  • 07-19-2008 4:14 PM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Part of Istanbul itself is in Turkey and part of it is in Asia - the hospital we are looking at has associated clinics just outside Instanbul in any event and beyond the Turkish border so therefore, falls under the Asian continent, outside of the EU legal restrictions. 

    I have made as careful enquiries as I can and I myself am a criminal lawyer, so to protect myself in these enquiries, I made up all the false details so I could tell them exactly what I wanted the IVF/PGD for. 

    I am happy that due to location, it is legal and will be going there.  It's up to everyone else to make their own minds up as I have just given options and you should investigate all of them further before you commit yourselves to anything.  It's just to get you started so good luck!

  •   Chasing the Gender Dream
  • 07-19-2008 4:47 PM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    I totally agree with you that people must make their own minds up.

    The hospital that I went to instead of the Jinemed is also on the Asian side but they tell me it is still illegal so this is why I think that view is questionable and I trust what my doctor said 100%.

    I had nothing to lose asking as I qualify for sex selection anyway due to my baby who died condition being more common in males then females but I was hoping to give the girls here the choice of my hospital as well as the jinemed.

    Like I said I will go to the Jinemed legal or not if I want to I just didn't want you or anyone else to be under false impressions thats all.

    The sex selection rule has not come from the EU rule because Turkey is not part of the EU yet though I know it wants to be.

    Also I forgot to say before I approached two other Istanbul hospitals and was was told that sex selection is forbidden in Turkey therefore that is 3 out 4 hospitals saying it is not allowed.

    If you are not talking about the Jinemed then let me know - I did do months of research on them so feel I am well informed. I only didn't go there very last minute as well the week before starting stims

    I just know from my own experience and lots of other peoples who go there that the Jinemed do not always play things by the book.

    But who cares if they give you what you want!!

    Best of luck with following your dream!

    For the rest of you I haven't forgotten about my hint and tips for Turkey info pack I just haven't had time to do it yet. Nobody is going this year are they?

    If you are let me know and I'll try and get a move on.

    Take care love Karen xxx

     

     

     

     

     

    Baby Boy 2000 Baby Boy 2003 Baby Boy 2006 My Angel Baby Girl IVF/PGD June 08 BFN :(   IVF/PGD Oct 08 cancelled due to poor response :(    Will I ever have another baby? 
  • 07-19-2008 4:58 PM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    I forgot to say I am not entirely sure that those prices are correct - they look like straight IVF/ICSI without PGD.

    I am still in contact with Ugar and got an updated price the other day but as usual they are never easy to work out. I was just going to put it all out on the info pack.

    Certainly it is not 8 nights it would be a minimum of 10 if you spilt the treatment as PGD take longer then a straight IVF Cycle.

    Also you cannot collect drugs from the portland any longer. I rang the company that they gave me to compare drug prices where they advise you to get your drugs from - they were more expensive then from where I bought mine from so I would say that £1000 is quite optismistic unless you are on Menopur.

    Certainly I would be able to give you places for cheaper drugs then there.

    That has got me curious now I will look at his prices.

     

     

    Baby Boy 2000 Baby Boy 2003 Baby Boy 2006 My Angel Baby Girl IVF/PGD June 08 BFN :(   IVF/PGD Oct 08 cancelled due to poor response :(    Will I ever have another baby? 
  • 07-19-2008 5:35 PM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

     Ok here is my email from ugar at the Jinemed.
     
     There is no change in Hotel costs. Taslik costs 800 GBP, Gonen costs 1500 GBP for 20 nights.
     
    For the split treatment, cost is 400 GBP for Taslik ( 10 nights), 750 GBP for 10 nights at Gonen.
     
    medical price for split price is 2300 GBP for ICSI + PGD on 3 embryos + 150 GBP for each additional + 1000 GBP for ultrasound scans, and medications. I do not arrange medications within London anymore as it is difficult to do for me to send medications from here to there. We write the prescription, and online drug store named ivfmeds.com ships them home. Prices are about the same. On average 800 GBP would be the medication cost.
     
    In both options, there would be pretreatment costs in London which are 400 GBP for blood work and ultrasound scan.
     
    That was his email above
     
    Therefore I make that for spliting the treatment:
     
    400 10 nights taslik - you might need long then this but £40 a night for a double room
    2300 3 embies only  IVF/ICSI/PGD ( I was a poor responder and had 3 more then that and you want at least 7 - 8 to PGD )
    450 for my extra 3 embies but likely you girls would have more so I would add in at least other two ( a further £300 pounds )
    1000 for portland scans or cheaper if you use your own.
    1000 realistically for drugs ( mine cost nearly £1,400 but I was on gonal f and you will all probably be on Menopur )
    400 for pretreatment cost which is he saying is standard whatever option you choose now - but you might be able to get GP to do these.
     
    Well I make that £5850 adding in the £400 for the pre treatment cost which you may be able to get your GP to do some of if they are sympathetic to you doing GS plus that includes a 8 embie PGD which is what I would estimate would be the average for you girls if not more.
     
    From another email If you go there for all the treatment it will be 21/22 days and will be cheaper
     
    Taslik £800 for 20 nights for a double room - you might need long then this but £40 a night.
     
    3100 include meds for 3 embies PGD therefore add 5 more @£150 each ( this from me being realistic )
    750 5 more embies PGD
    400 pre treatment cost.
     
    I make that £5050 which is more expensive then it used to be which was £4,900 but then I did add the £400 pre treatment cost which certain tests need to be done before you can do an ivf cycle which you will have to pay if GP won't do them which they might not if not for infertility issues but you never know.
     
    That certainly makes a difference and that is without flights and spending money.
     
    I would say to be on the safe side £6000 for Treatment all at istanbul and £6500 if not more for spliting Treatment. all in inc flight
     
    flights cost an average of £190 - twice that depending on time of yeatr now they are a hideous price! cheaper ones can be found if you are prepared to stop off in switzerland I wasn't - thought 4 hours was enough!
     
    This is with the cheapest option hotel if you want the one with the swimming pools then you need to double the hotel cost on average.
     
    I got an apartment which I can give details of which was great to have because of having the kids with us and I also got a 10 day pass to use the gonen indoor swimming pool so feel i got the best of both worlds but up to you guys!
     
    hope this helps and sorry that it is not as cheap as you thought but you really need the correct prices - Russia was even dearer in the end adding on the seperate price for ICSI which is recommend when having PGD and the fact that you need to fly there and back twice all bumped that up to about £7000 I think it was for us without spending money and accomodation but would have to check for definate.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Baby Boy 2000 Baby Boy 2003 Baby Boy 2006 My Angel Baby Girl IVF/PGD June 08 BFN :(   IVF/PGD Oct 08 cancelled due to poor response :(    Will I ever have another baby? 
  • 07-20-2008 2:55 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Thanks for all the information Karen.  The breakdown I got was recent too, after speaking with someone but someone else who got an email had a slightly higher costing. 

    I was not shy about my profession when speaking to them and if there is a legal loophole they have found and are taking advantage, then that's up to them.  I can tell you that in our country, in my job, there are legal loopholes in many of our statutes that we have taken advantage of because of hastily drafted legislation and until Parliament covers up those loopholes, then that's their lookout - we're not doing anything wrong.  We seem to be told different things although I have seen Jinemed fully advertise GS and how they can do it in terms of legality so this would not be a wise move on them to openly admit something that some people think is illegal.

    As for the costs, we have a consultation with them next weekend so we'll get our breakdown then (along with other answers to questions I have!) but we don't know how they come to the figures that they do - depending on how busy they are(?!); the meds being used like you say, the hotels you stay at, the split in treatment, any negotiations between the parties - all sorts of things. 

    For anyone reading the posts, I reiterate again that these are just options.  Whatever Karen or I say, you must do what you feel best and any sensible person would be getting costs for their particular situation.  These are just ballpark figures and you may be given a different set of figures.  What this post aimed to do was to give you thought on whether it was a potentially viable option to you.  Don't be put off if it's really what you want - satisfy yourselves if it is achieveable for you.  Besides, these are not the only considerations as you probably know but they are starting points.

    However you go about it, given how I feel about my present situation, I wish you the best of luck in whichever way you decide to complete your family.

  • 07-20-2008 4:40 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Thanks Krazykatgirl, I'm not planning this year as am still pregnant unfortunately but I'm hoping to try some time next year, finances willing, & I'm looking forward to hearing about your experiences & the factsheet thingy, thanks & good luck

    Baby Girl 2006    Baby Girl 2008

  • 07-20-2008 4:56 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Hi Markyjo the prices I quoted are fresh off the press from Ugar ( patients relation person for jinemed ) he is the proffessors son and deals with non medical issues.

    I have said this before that they may have found a legal loophole but I wouldn't count on it having actually been to Turkey and had treatment at a highly reputable hospital who state that it is illegal in the whole of Turkey and like I said Turkey are not governed by EU rules so that ruling must have come from the Turkey government themselves I suspect.

    The Jinemed do not publish the fact they do PGD for Gender Selection on their website. They used to have a sheet that they sent out via email.

    However as I have stated before when everyone was worried about the legality I have said that I would still go there if it was my only option so don't think people who are aware of the legality status have been put off  who consider it their best option.

    They Jinemed come to the prices they do depending on whether you want to split the treatment ie part in UK and the rest in Istanbul or whether you want to go there for all the 21/22 days, what protocol you are on ( the actual drugs you will need will affect the cost ) the amount viable embies you produce that go to PGD and how many nights you need in the hotel and which hotel you want to stay in.

    All of which is explained above and needs to adjusted to the persons particular situation and choice of what they want to do.

    The prices do not change depending on how busy they are and they base them on a package all in but you don't have to do that and can get your own apartment if you wish.

    From experience and the way it is worded I suspect that the prices you got quoted are for straight IVF/ICSI with no PGD and I didn't want anyone to be under the illusion that it is cheaper then it is because this is a factor when you are deciding what to do.

    At the consultation you will see the doctors and I think Romina ( nurse ) is going this time. They will examine you and decide on your protocol though did you say you were pregnant right now? They will have to leave some tests until you have had bubs in that case.

    For everyone else does everyone still want me to do this info sheet on Turkey and the jinemed as I was/am their email contact for pricing info? I don't mind doing it but it will be a bit of work to do it properly but if everyone feels they want to do their own research instead and not rely on mine and my experience of IVF/PGD having actually done it all in Turkey then I am quite happy to leave it and let you carry on but I did feel I was helping and making the effort to give correct information and hint and tips to help you all get the best out of your treatment.

    Of course I reiterate myself that it is your decision whether you want to go there based on the legality aspect but if you want to go there I am still happy to help if people still want it.

    Let me know and good luck with your decisions/treatments.

     

     

     

     

     

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    Baby Boy 2000 Baby Boy 2003 Baby Boy 2006 My Angel Baby Girl IVF/PGD June 08 BFN :(   IVF/PGD Oct 08 cancelled due to poor response :(    Will I ever have another baby? 
  • 07-20-2008 5:07 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Well I've done my bit.  I don't profess to know everything and although I have access to researching the law and have lots of experience in it, I'm happy to do that, as I am a lawyer anyway so I have to satisfy myself and I have plenty of contacts in that department to help me with it too.  For others, some people would do anything to achieve balance in their family and are more worried about costs than legal issues - everyone's own choice at the end of the day. 

    Karen wants to be the frontliner and I'm happy with that.  I'm not arguing over a forum about who is right, who is wrong, who has the best experience, etc etc.  I didn't expect the post to raise this much trouble for someone with my experience just giving pointers for those who want to get started so I'm off the record now.  Anyone who wants to keep in touch with my progress, please feel free to PM me.

  • 07-20-2008 5:22 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    I'd still like a fact-sheet when you've time!

    We're all aiming at the same goal & the more we pool our knowledge the better? Not that I've actually got any on it, but anyone with info or experience all adds helping the rest of us. I hope we all get what we're wantingPray

    Baby Girl 2006    Baby Girl 2008

  • 07-20-2008 5:54 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Hi Markjo I am sorry I didn't mean to offend you! I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that the prices and information are correct to the best of my ability and am certainly not worried about being the frontliner either!

    Re the legaI side I can't say for certain that I am right there I only have to go by what I have been told but it looks like you being a lawyer may be in the best position to find out for sure.  I would love it if it is legal there and of course so would everyone else here so it would be great if you could clarify that for certain.

    I did find one article on the net that was saying sex selection for family balancing purposes was restricted in Turkey but that was not in relation to PGD but the Errison method  ( unproved sperm sorting method ) so haven't found anything in relation to ART and PGD.

    I would love to hear about what happens at your consultation as I didn't go to that but I know it is extremely useful for those who do from a lot of girls who have just done straight IVF at Jinemed.

    When would you be thinking about doing a IVF/PGD cycle? In fact when is the the first person on here likely to go to the jinemed?

    I am going to do another cycle in Turkey in October if I don't get pregnant naturally. I haven't ruled out going to the Jinemed myself either in the future so still want to keep up to date on what is happening with them hence why I told Ugar I would still give out pricing info.

    As I have my DH translocation ( dogey gene ) to deal with I just felt my hospital may be the more experienced to deal with that on the PGD side as I could not really get good information about this from the Jinemed but don't doubt their compentence for PGD for gender selection.

    Also I did have some probs last minute with them over coordinating the treatment spliting between the UK and Istanbul which upset me at the time but would not be a barrier to me going there in the future as after researching including speaking to many who have been there feel they are a good hospital especially once you are there in Istanbul.

    Anyway I hope that clears that up - we all need to support each other on here and hope that you won't feel that you don't want to post anymore out on the open forum!

    Take care love Karen xxxx

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Baby Boy 2000 Baby Boy 2003 Baby Boy 2006 My Angel Baby Girl IVF/PGD June 08 BFN :(   IVF/PGD Oct 08 cancelled due to poor response :(    Will I ever have another baby? 
  • 07-20-2008 6:20 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Krazykatgirl:
    I would love to hear about what happens at your consultation

     

    Me too, this whole can-it be done-in-Turkey-or-not question is so important. I guess even if it is ileagal maybe some places do it if you have the cash? I hope it is available for us all, we need as much info & experience sharing as possible on the subject. And I could do with a small lottery win...

    Baby Girl 2006    Baby Girl 2008

  • 07-20-2008 6:29 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    markyjo:

    Well I've done my bit.  I don't profess to know everything and although I have access to researching the law and have lots of experience in it, I'm happy to do that, as I am a lawyer anyway so I have to satisfy myself and I have plenty of contacts in that department to help me with it too.  For others, some people would do anything to achieve balance in their family and are more worried about costs than legal issues - everyone's own choice at the end of the day. 

    Karen wants to be the frontliner and I'm happy with that.  I'm not arguing over a forum about who is right, who is wrong, who has the best experience, etc etc.  I didn't expect the post to raise this much trouble for someone with my experience just giving pointers for those who want to get started so I'm off the record now.  Anyone who wants to keep in touch with my progress, please feel free to PM me.

    Markyjo,

    Please don't stop posting here, you've done a great job and your experience as a lawyer is invaluable. I hope you will post, maybe a new post? about your consultation. I'm in a tough situation emotionally right now, because of three failed MS/IVF attempts, so I don't have the strength right now to do all that investigation, so I'm so grateful to learn from you and Karen's investigations.  I haven't decided yet if I should try high-tech again or stick to low-tech, so all of this helps me so much, I live in Europe so Turkey would be a great option for us.

    So please keep posting we can't do without you Pray

    hopingforadd


    Baby Boy2001 Baby Boy 2004


    1# MS/IVF BFN! :-(
    3 cancelled cycles due to low responding, few eggs
    2# MS/IVF BFN! :-(
    3# MS FET transferred three embies BFN! :-(

    ^i^ mc our little TBM angel, 13 weeks.

  • 07-25-2008 4:29 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Representatives of 1 of the Turkey Clinics - Jinemed - is in London this weekend for people wanting more info

    Baby Girl 2006    Baby Girl 2008

  • 08-20-2008 1:59 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    Hi there,

    This is very good ladies - I also want to gather all the information that I can, and we can all make a good job at it!

    There is also a clinic in Zlin, Chech Republic which do IVF/PGD. They dont openly

    admit to GS but they say that after the PGD you have the ability to choose which

    emryos you would want to transfer and hence you get to choose gender if you wish.

    their wedsite is found if you google at "ivfvacation".

    Krissymum

    Baby Boy Baby Boy
  • 08-21-2008 10:50 AM

    Re: Investigating EU options - hope this helps

    So we know it isn't technically legal in Czech or Turkey but it can be done by calling it something else, & it is legal in North Cyprus? And Jordan?! - Even I realise Jordan is not in Europe but it's good to know all options [Like I have any at the moment with zero cash!]

    Baby Girl 2006    Baby Girl 2008

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