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UPDATE!! Need Tech response and/or people experience on Nuchal Fold to Thick @20wks

lovemy4

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Maine

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lovemy4

That is wonderful news!! I am so glad that everything looks good and thank goodness for 2nd opinions :)  Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and have fun with the girly things!

 

 

DreamingofXX

Time to move on from my Dreams of Pink :(

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DreamingofXX

ThreeBsandcounting:
Thank you all for the thoughts and prayers. We went for the Fetal Echo and detailed ultrasound this afternoon at a different hospital. Very good news EVERYTHING measured normal!!! The sonographer today said they don't even measure the nuchal fold after 20 weeks and was confused at the fact that they measured it on Friday when baby was 20 weeks 2 days. They remeasured it today just for comparison and it was normal range!! Her heart looks great, all bones measured normal, and all organs look great. Her nasal bone is PRESENT and they said they don't measure the length they just check that it is there and it is so that is good. Needless to say I am SOOO glad I asked for second opinion and I am now more at ease that she is perfectly normal as far as they can measure. Thank you all :-)
 

YAY!!!   Happy Smile  That is WONDERFUL news!!!   Thank God!!!   So SO So happy to hear that!!  

DH Baby Boy 40  

ME Baby Girl 33,  married since 2002 Hearts

ColeBaby Bear Boy 2004     CaidenBaby Bear Boy 2006       KodyBaby Bear Boy 2011    JaceBaby Bear Boy 2012  My UNplanned home birth baby...  


 "Boys are meant for kisses and hugs, For watching rainbows and catching
bugs, For sharing all of your favorite things, For books to read and
songs to sing.  Blue jeans and trucks, scrapes on his knees, Running in the Dirt, and being a tease. Making a face, and build and destroy. There's nothing like just being a BOY!" ♥♥♥♥


 

 

Ruby_red

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Ruby_red

That's just brilliant news... Hope you are okay? What a stressful week for you x
Proud mummy of 2 wonderful boys and now a 3rd one one the way
 

redvictoria

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redvictoria

That is great news xxx
Mummy to Baby Girl (2008) and expecting another bundle of joy in September don't mind if it's Baby Girl or Baby Boy but i'm so excited to find out on April 21st!

 

blondhayley

Hayley

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blondhayley

 Wow i was thinking about you yesterday and praying it turned out well for you. Im so glad it was good news for you. Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy so pleased for you. Xx

Baby Bear Girl  20/11/09 Lilah Nicole  Baby Bear Boy  10/08/11 Joel Thomas

Baby GirlBaby BoyVery proud Mummy and Daddy

 




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Perla one day

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Perla one day

That's wonderful news. Really happy for you. That was a very unessesary worry.

Baby Bear Boy12Baby Bear Boy9Baby Bear Boy3 HeartbrokenDec 2011 and a precious  10 dec 2012.

 

ByeBye_NotWorth the time

ThreeBsandcounting

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Michigan

Joined 06-28-2011

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ByeBye_NotWorth the time

Thank you all, I was really worried about the "soft markers" they found. After my appointment yesterday my mind is at ease now that she is measuring normal. I am left now angry and frustrated at the first ultrasound experience I had, she shouldn't have even measured the nuchal fold at 20weeks 2days. I am worried for others who will go through this now, a less empowered person may have not opted for a second opinion and then would have been left with worry that they were higher risk of downs..etc for their whole pregnancy or even gotten an amino and put the baby at risk for no valid reason. I am going to talk with with my doctors about these concerns I feel they should be voiced. I hope others read this and realize that doctors are only as good as their experience, knowledge and the tools they use, they can be wrong/inaccurate and one should always seek a second opinion. Even the machines that are used are only as good as humans ulitize them i.e. the ultrasound machines. Thank you all again for your concern and I praise God that my girl is measuring normal :-) So RELIEVED!
 

pnkpanther

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pnkpanther

fantastastic news! so happy for you!

Baby Boy Baby Boy Baby Boy Heartbroken x3 and surprise Baby Girl (02/2012)


 

krystal251

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krystal251

I just stumbled across your post now. I can't imagine how you must have felt but am thankful everything turned out okay.

Baby Girl (2010)... Baby Girl #2 Due July 3, 2013

 

charliecats

Full House

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charliecats

ThreeBsandcounting:
Thank you all, I was really worried about the "soft markers" they found. After my appointment yesterday my mind is at ease now that she is measuring normal. I am left now angry and frustrated at the first ultrasound experience I had, she shouldn't have even measured the nuchal fold at 20weeks 2days. I am worried for others who will go through this now, a less empowered person may have not opted for a second opinion and then would have been left with worry that they were higher risk of downs..etc for their whole pregnancy or even gotten an amino and put the baby at risk for no valid reason. I am going to talk with with my doctors about these concerns I feel they should be voiced. I hope others read this and realize that doctors are only as good as their experience, knowledge and the tools they use, they can be wrong/inaccurate and one should always seek a second opinion. Even the machines that are used are only as good as humans ulitize them i.e. the ultrasound machines. Thank you all again for your concern and I praise God that my girl is measuring normal :-) So RELIEVED!
Your tech was correct in measuring the fold. It is standard practice to measure the fold at our facility, as well as at the tertiary care (high risk) center I used to work at. I still work for the same practice, just in a community hospital now. The baby can be lying with it's head tilted back, which will naturally cause the baby's fold to appear thicker. However, if we did not measure the fold, we would not being doing our job. We HAVE to document soft markers. They are soft markers. Soft. Not 100%. But there the possibility. As I posted before, I have send patients onward for more testing due to thickened folds, and had them come back normal. And I am relieved. I hate putting the mom through the stress of that , but I would hate to deny a mom the opportunity to know more about the potential for a chromosomal disorder. I'm glad your baby is ok. But don't go blowing your stack about a tech doing their job to the best of their ability. The tech is to measure the fold in the 2nd trimester, up until 22 wks. Read more below. http://www.fetalultrasound.com/online/text/2-040.HTM Nuchal fold measurement is obtained from the outer edge of the occipital bone to the skin surface in the transaxial plane of the fetal head at the level of the cavum septi pellucidum and cerebellar hemisphere. Nuchal fold can be spuriously thickened by angling caudally (intersecting the inferior level of the cerebellum and occiput). This nuchal skin fold increases with advancing gestational age and ranges between 1 and 5 mm in normal fetuses between 14 and 21 weeks gestation. A nuchal skin fold thickness of ³6 mm is considered abnormal between 14 and 21 weeks. Excess skin along the back of the neck is well known in babies with Down syndrome (80% of neonates). There are many studies that have reported the relationship of a thickened nuchal fold with abnormal karyotypes. Benacerraf and co-workers 1985 (1,2)(nuchal fold ³6mm). Combined Studies 1987(3) 42% fetuses with Downs syndrome had thickened nuchal fold. False positive rate = 0.1% Sensitivity = 42% specificity 99.9% Kirk an co-workers 1992(4) Thickened nuchal fold associated with 40% of abnormal karyotypes and 0.4% of normal second trimester fetuses. Crane and Gray 1991(5) Identified 75% of fetuses with Downs Syndrome, using the thickened nuchal fold, with a false positive rate of 1.4% and a positive predictive value of 1/13 for the detection of affected fetuses. Recommend using 5mm thickening between 14-18 weeks and 6mm from 19-24 weeks. Sensitivity = 50%, false positive rate of £3%. Interobserver variability 1mm of each other with a 95% probability. Reproducibility was within 0.5mm 95% of the time in the first trimester(6).
 

ByeBye_NotWorth the time

ThreeBsandcounting

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Girl

Michigan

Joined 06-28-2011

Posts 119

ByeBye_NotWorth the time

charliecats:
ThreeBsandcounting:
Thank you all, I was really worried about the "soft markers" they found. After my appointment yesterday my mind is at ease now that she is measuring normal. I am left now angry and frustrated at the first ultrasound experience I had, she shouldn't have even measured the nuchal fold at 20weeks 2days. I am worried for others who will go through this now, a less empowered person may have not opted for a second opinion and then would have been left with worry that they were higher risk of downs..etc for their whole pregnancy or even gotten an amino and put the baby at risk for no valid reason. I am going to talk with with my doctors about these concerns I feel they should be voiced. I hope others read this and realize that doctors are only as good as their experience, knowledge and the tools they use, they can be wrong/inaccurate and one should always seek a second opinion. Even the machines that are used are only as good as humans ulitize them i.e. the ultrasound machines. Thank you all again for your concern and I praise God that my girl is measuring normal :-) So RELIEVED!
Your tech was correct in measuring the fold. It is standard practice to measure the fold at our facility, as well as at the tertiary care (high risk) center I used to work at. I still work for the same practice, just in a community hospital now. The baby can be lying with it's head tilted back, which will naturally cause the baby's fold to appear thicker. However, if we did not measure the fold, we would not being doing our job. We HAVE to document soft markers. They are soft markers. Soft. Not 100%. But there the possibility. As I posted before, I have send patients onward for more testing due to thickened folds, and had them come back normal. And I am relieved. I hate putting the mom through the stress of that , but I would hate to deny a mom the opportunity to know more about the potential for a chromosomal disorder. I'm glad your baby is ok. But don't go blowing your stack about a tech doing their job to the best of their ability. The tech is to measure the fold in the 2nd trimester, up until 22 wks. Read more below. http://www.fetalultrasound.com/online/text/2-040.HTM Nuchal fold measurement is obtained from the outer edge of the occipital bone to the skin surface in the transaxial plane of the fetal head at the level of the cavum septi pellucidum and cerebellar hemisphere. Nuchal fold can be spuriously thickened by angling caudally (intersecting the inferior level of the cerebellum and occiput). This nuchal skin fold increases with advancing gestational age and ranges between 1 and 5 mm in normal fetuses between 14 and 21 weeks gestation. A nuchal skin fold thickness of ³6 mm is considered abnormal between 14 and 21 weeks. Excess skin along the back of the neck is well known in babies with Down syndrome (80% of neonates). There are many studies that have reported the relationship of a thickened nuchal fold with abnormal karyotypes. Benacerraf and co-workers 1985 (1,2)(nuchal fold ³6mm). Combined Studies 1987(3) 42% fetuses with Downs syndrome had thickened nuchal fold. False positive rate = 0.1% Sensitivity = 42% specificity 99.9% Kirk an co-workers 1992(4) Thickened nuchal fold associated with 40% of abnormal karyotypes and 0.4% of normal second trimester fetuses. Crane and Gray 1991(5) Identified 75% of fetuses with Downs Syndrome, using the thickened nuchal fold, with a false positive rate of 1.4% and a positive predictive value of 1/13 for the detection of affected fetuses. Recommend using 5mm thickening between 14-18 weeks and 6mm from 19-24 weeks. Sensitivity = 50%, false positive rate of £3%. Interobserver variability 1mm of each other with a 95% probability. Reproducibility was within 0.5mm 95% of the time in the first trimester(6).
Thanks I did read some of this online, in an attempt to educate myself. In my experience i found that there is difference in practice between hospitals on when the cut off is to measure the fold. The hospital I got the second scan at said it is standard for them not to measure the fold after 19weeks 6 days. After talking with my doctor about the experience he indicated the measurements are subjective. While I appreciate the original tech was probably following their hospital procedure it disturbs me that there isn't a set in stone practice/ standard practice from hospital to hospital to which my doctor confirmed. I also was disappointed that the fetal medicine doctor didn't talk to me during my appointment when the tech discovered the abnormal measurement. A lot of things could have been handled differently during my original us to make a better patient care experience.
 

Luna2012

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Joined 03-29-2012

Posts 52

Luna2012

YAAAAAY!!!! very very happy for you!!!! great news!!!!!!!!
 

dontreallycare

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Joined 11-17-2011

Posts 48

dontreallycare

Charliecats, where does nasal bone fit in to all this? what percentile does nasal bone have to be for it to be downs or not?
 

dontreallycare

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Joined 11-17-2011

Posts 48

dontreallycare

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