Big family-small budget ,small family-big budget?WWYD (poll)

@Firtle-Myrtle - Although I understand that welfare was made to help those in need and that not everyone abuses, I must think that you are very sheltered if you don't believe thousands of people are abusing it daily. I know of quite a few people who are at this very moment, in fact, one of them is my BIL and his fiancé. She lives with her mother, brother, sister, father and son, along with my BIL. However, her mother is in housing and recieves food stamps and other assistance (and has for 25 years), an since BIL has a job, they don't report him living there so that it doesn't take away from her mother's benefits. This is just an example of system abuse due to lying and fraud. I do also personally know a woman who chooses not to do anything with her life except taking Xanax and Vicodin, she is the lady who has a kid once every 5 years so that she can stay on the medical card. Also, I don't view student financial aid to be in the same category as welfare, I used student aid to go to school also and am nearly done paying it back, an I don't hold grudges against people who use welfare/medical card, as when I was pg with my dd my husband got laid off and I was on the medical crd for about 6 months, that's what it's there for, but people who stay on it for 10+ years who lie and cheat to get more money an who use children as their garuntee not to have to get a job, those are the people I have problems with.

I just have an issue with people who judge large families and think they must have lots of kids so they can work the welfare system. The facts are that a child costs way more than the increase in benefits. I don't know anyone who does that. More small families are on welfare than large ones, so IMO, if a person is going to use the welfare statement they should start with small families. :) We live in one of the richest countries in the world, in a time when people live luxurious lifestyles, and yet we still ask " should I have a baby or money". It is really crazy. When people lived in tents, they had lots of babies and never thought about giving them their own rooms, when the pilgrims came over on the Mayflower, two of the women gave birth on the boat. Now that seems like poor timing to me! It had to be hard with no running water, shelter, or new clothes, and yet they made it work. Now, we won't have a child if we don't have savings for college? That just seems weird to me. How do you even know if your child will choose college? I think the real reason more people don't have more babies is because of the luxurious lifestyles. People would rather have a new car, a nicer house, and more money for themselves than to raise children. People don't want their time to be bothered with children either. They only want the number that will enhance their own lifestyle. It doesn't have anything to do with the child, it is all about me, me, me. And as this grows, the birth rate will continue to fall. I'm not talking about those of us on this site all about babies of course, I am talking about the other people. LOL

I wasn't saying that large families always mooch off the welfare system, all I was saying is if someone is on welfare and being supported by tax payers, it would be ridiculous to keep expanding your family, because obviously, you can't afford the kids you have already. That was it. I do know some large families who have been on welfare for 10+ yrs and are still having kids, but I also know more large families who make it all on their own hard work, and those people I applaud.------------------------- Also, I could never have 5+ kids, ever. And it's not because I'm selfish or that I don't want to spend all my time with children (which is funny as I do spend ALL my time with my dd already), but because I doubt my ability to parent that many children adequately in today's world. And yes, back then people constantly had children, but try to keep in mind that the life span back then was only about half of what it is today and the infant/mother mortality rate was super high, so it was imperitive that they kept reproducing the way they did. The population IS still growing just fine, it's just not growing as rapidly as it has in the past.

I agree, there's nothing wrong w/ the population growth that's for sure. Everyone knows in most developed places that the birth rate surpasses the death rate. Otherwise, the world's population wouldn't be near or at 7 billion right now.

rainbabies12:

I When people lived in tents, they had lots of babies and never thought about giving them their own rooms, when the pilgrims came over on the Mayflower, two of the women gave birth on the boat.

LOL... In addition to Poku's explanation to this there is one more important thing that was not available or accessable nor invented during that "era". Its only in the recent century that this was made easiliy available and accessible to women.. its called BIRTH CONTROL. More information on birth control methods can be read here - http://www.womenshealth.gov/faq/birth-control-methods.cfm  People use this in the 21st century and those who don't are available as a show on TV called the Duggars. (I think). Women have come a long way since then.. people have worked hard to put women in par with men in today's world. Marie Curie (mom of 2), Nobel Laureate Carol Grieder (mom of 2), Princess Diana, Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor (mom of 3), Melinda Gates, Hilary Clinton, Cristina Fernandez, Michelle Obama, CEO and chairman of Pepsico Indra Nooyi (all moms of 2) and my insipiration -my mom (a working mom of 2) are some women in the 21st century and sooo many women from the past and moms have contributed remarkably to make our society what it is today. To think that we should still be like piligrims of the past delivering babies on boats... :((

rainbabies12:

How do you even know if your child will choose college? I think the real reason more people don't have more babies is because of the luxurious lifestyles.

 
This is our job as parents to know and make it 200% sure that they do have a college education. Growing up in my house we din't even know/realize that there was any other option like we could stop at high school etc. I think our parents did a damn good job at that. I think the real reason some women keep having babies is the want to feel complete. Some get this with a family of 4, some women reach this with one and some want more and more like the Octomom, Nadia S. It cannot be just about giving siblings. If my oldest is 20 yo and my current is 1 yr old then its more like a father-child than a sibling-sibling relationship.

Before Columbus discovered America people never knew a new world existed beyond a point and now living here, few of us don't see outside of the walls of their houses, outside the boundaries of a state and the world beyond this new world. A good working refrigirator could be called as luxury for a famiy of 4 in vietnam or an extra cylinder of cooking gas allotment could be for the ones in Bangladesh or Srilanka. Yes, we do live in a rich country, but if we try to learn more about our outside environment, not everybody is rich in this country. Yes, its true.  Defining luxury here as driving a fancy car or having a nice house etc. people who do want to enjoy them might have worked hard for it (barring the Paris Hilton types ofcourse) and there is nothing wrong with that. I really wish all the small family country men and women lived in this definition of luxury, but its not. Including my DD's amazing Kindy teacher, Mrs O'Conner. Too bad she chose to be a mom of only 2 and deicided to impart knowlegde to our furture generation while driving a non-luxury simple car.

For Info on population awareness - http://www.overpopulation.org/

 

 

Aqua:

This is our job as parents to know and make it 200% sure that they do have a college education.

 

 This.  In my opinion, it's imperative in today's world that our children be educated. With my kids, it's never an "if" you go to college, it's a "when" you go to college.  For my kids, I try to convey that there is no choice in the matter.  Why?  Because without an education my kids will have no choices as adults. 

Yes, there are exceptions, but that's what they are - exceptions.  And yes one of my kids might rebel and not go to college. But it won't be for lack of expectation or financial means on my part as parent. That is why I have the number of kids that I have - because I know my limits, both in terms of finances and in terms of working with each child individually - every day - on their homework so that they know how committed I am to their educations.

Aqua, I appreciated your entire post - very well written and thought out.  I found the story about your DD's teacher to be very compelling. I am lucky enough to know people like that as well.

Yes birth control is widely used in our country, but have you ever stopped to think if that was a good thing? in the 20's even sending information thru the mail about birth control was illegal. This changed with Margaret Sanger and the founding of planned barrenhood. Her goals were to plant PP in black communities and to eliminate certain races. You can read about this in her book " woman and the new race ". So, we went from no birth control in the 20's, to oral bc in the 60's, to abortion in the 70's, and now there are 49,551,703 abortions since 1973. And we call this progress. It's been a rapid downward spiral in morality since that time. Now our country does not value children anymore. They are seen as something to " fulfill" our lifestyles. Just another little something to make us happy and keep us occupied ? Instead of valuing the child because they are wonderful in themselves. You can teach your child that college will be the expectation after high school, but not all children obey at that age. I have kids all the way up through college age, and I have many friends whondid that exact thing, and their kids had other ideas. So, even if you secure their education, that doesn't mean they will use it, or not flunk out, or decide to get their girlfriend pregnant, or decide to go to fireman school instead. You just can never tell, but I have noticed that people with kids younger than 12 never believe that their kids might make a choice other than what they have planned for them. I am not going to sacrifice one of my future children just to have more money to give to a child that may or may not want college when that child can also work to afford college if that is their choice. They will also appreciate their classes more and try harder if they worked all summer for that money. Also, the most important job is being a mother. Raising children with beliefs and values and morals is difficult. Putting value only on women who chose to work outside the home, belittles the SAHMs.

 A college education doesn't mean squat. Esp. if you live where there are no "real good" jobs. It's too easy to say, "Well just move." Not everyone can pack up & afford to move esp. if they have family close by.  College is a CHOICE and always will be because people over 18 are considered adults and can make their own choices, plus college is an expensive commitment that even lots of families, mainly parents cannot afford in this day and age. You can certainly encorage a child in a skill they like but it's up to them what they do w/ it. 

Azuremyst:

 A college education doesn't mean squat. Esp. if you live where there are no "real good" jobs. It's too easy to say, "Well just move." Not everyone can pack up & afford to move esp. if they have family close by.  College is a CHOICE and always will be because people over 18 are considered adults and can make their own choices, plus college is an expensive commitment that even lots of families, mainly parents cannot afford in this day and age. You can certainly encorage a child in a skill they like but it's up to them what they do w/ it. 

I went to college and I still agree with this. Well said.

I spent most of my 20's in college. I have a degree in elem Ed and I have a RN degree, but I still think I would rather give my kids money to start their own business. I have seen too many graduate from college and not be able to get jobs in their field. Either way, it would not determine how many children are in my family.

Anyone watched the state of union address tonight. Quoting an exerpt taken from the Presidents speech:

 ********************************************. Maintaining our leadership in research and technology is crucial to America's success. But if we want to win the future -- if we want innovation to produce jobs in America and not overseas -- then we also have to win the race to educate our kids. Think about it. Over the next 10 years, nearly half of all new jobs will require education that goes beyond a high school education. And yet, as many as a quarter of our students aren't even finishing high school. The quality of our math and science education lags behind many other nations. America has fallen to ninth in the proportion of young people with a college degree. And so the question is whether all of us -- as citizens, and as parents -- are willing to do what's necessary to give every child a chance to succeed. ****************************************************************************

 I am one of those parents who is willing to do this and want my child to have that experiance. Ofcourse I can just give my kids money and ask them to do some business. But before that I'd rather guide them to a degree in business administration and let them gain some business acumen.. I am glad there are still parents and households like mine which value academic excellence. And thank god for such parents we have doctors, engineers, architects, nurses, professors, inventers, economists lawyers etc. And parents of future achievers who inspire and work with their kids relentlessly so they can one day gain the experience of knowledge and excel in a professional college setting or ivy leagues etc.. Well good for them, looks like less competition. The economy is up one day and down another, you might have number of job offers at hand one day and another day you may not. I believe the value of higher education is something you'll carry all your life and you'll never know when you might need it.

I agree with Aqua - higher education is NOT a choice, it is a necessity if you want to make it anywhere in this world. No longer can you get high paying blue collar jobs because they've all been outsourced.

The only reason why we live comfortable lives, provide for our children, remain debt free and aren't hit as hard by the economy is because DH and I both have professional degrees and make six figures a year. So the only place my kids are going to after HS is college. And because I encourage them to do so it is my responsibility to be able to pay to pay for their educations fully. Period.

The harsh truth is if you aint got a college degree you aint going anywhere in this economy!

That's not entirely true. I have two degrees, but don't use either. My dh is the only provider and makes six figures alone and he only has a high school diploma.

Making 6 figures a year is quite unheard of around here even with a college degree. Most "decent" jobs are in the larger cities and surrounding suburbs. We don't like near big cities and why would we want to? No crime, no polution, were living how life should be we don't need the hustle and bustle, life is too short. The closest major university is about 45 mintues away, that's quite a commute for a young person who cannot afford to live on campus and with gas being the way it is now forget about it. So, to "make it" in this country...some people aren't left with a whole lot of options now. I would consider someone making a 6 figure salary "wealthy" in my book. I don't even have an income, I don't get any state help, and my DH only makes barely 30K a year and we get by just fine. In some areas, you don't "need" a lot. No one is starving in our family, we have the latest things...IPAD, big screen TV, trip to Hawaii & Florida, a newer car, motorcycle, several computers, all our baby items are bought, & no one went in debt to get those things. We certainly are NOT home owners, heating is expensive here so were glad to be renters. We live in reality and once the baby gets here there will be no more "luxuries" such as these so were glad to already have them. I used to work fulltime for a long time.

i've been following this post and have enjoyed and appreciated both sides. I just gave birth to our 4th...are we done? I don't know. I'm sure that we'll figure it out along the way...I definitely wouldn't mind more. I'm a SAHM with a degree in Sociology and minor in Psychology. My DH has a 2 year tech school degree. I'm all for college, to an extent. I see more and more people who come out of college dumber than a sack of rocks and do not get it. College is no guarantee that you're a step above/ahead of anyone in society, you have to make the choice to make something out of your life and even if you have a 4, 8 or more year degree behind your name, if you don't choose to use your brain, what good is the $$ spent on a piece of paper saying ______ has been awarded _________ degree? My DH comes from a family with 6 children, father a raging abusive alcoholic and drug addict, mom who didn't finish high school. to say they were poor was an understatement BUT the only thing that separates my dh from his siblings is his determination to make a better life. he's not the most educated but he is the most skilled...education can never replace skill and determination. With the way our society is going, college is bound to become for the elite only again...just the way it started out. There are too many users and abusers of financial aid systems for financial aid to sustain much longer. Here in GA we have the HOPE---kids go to school for free thanks to the lottery. BUT, since DH is now a tech college instructor, we see the other side....kids being granted $$ to go to school but never finishing, a huge waste of financial aid funds. The prices of college education is sky rocketing...we just read a report that the state of GA cut funding to colleges by something like 7% so colleges raised their tuition by 16% to compensate...16%??? that's a lot of money. I will encourage my children to seek out college education but more than that I will teach my children to be skilled people, productive people, SMART people. Would it be easier for us to just send 1 child to college vs 4? maybe, but as many people have already pointed out it is what you do with your finances that truly matters. We live a bare minimum lifestyle and LOVE it. We hate TV, the shows are just ridiculous, we take vacations yes, but have quickly realized the best vacations are those that don't require constant entertainment and just more family time. we dont' eat out a lot, we don't have the latest electronic gadgets etc and we are HAPPY.