link for those who believe there is no scientific evidence for swaying.

kristindoggirl:

GreenZelda:

Haven't read the article, but I am thinking... if real, successful swaying could be accomplished by lay people, it would have been packaged up and sold to us years ago.

And/or, we'd be seeing much better swaying stats/anecdotes on IG.

So I'll still count myself in the non-believer camp.  ;)

GZ

Wow.  Can I just say that I am stunned, that someone would take time out of their day to run down an article that they had not even read.  This was not a tidbit my granny clipped from the National Enquirer, it was a 28 page article from the Journal of Endocrinology with more than 10 pages of links to studies that support many ideas that we use in swaying.

 

 

 

kristindoggirl:

GreenZelda:

Haven't read the article, but I am thinking... if real, successful swaying could be accomplished by lay people, it would have been packaged up and sold to us years ago.

And/or, we'd be seeing much better swaying stats/anecdotes on IG.

So I'll still count myself in the non-believer camp.  ;)

GZ

Wow.  Can I just say that I am stunned, that someone would take time out of their day to run down an article that they had not even read.  This was not a tidbit my granny clipped from the National Enquirer, it was a 28 page article from the Journal of Endocrinology with more than 10 pages of links to studies that support many ideas that we use in swaying.  Low sperm count = more girls.  Lower testosterone and estrogen = more girls.  Lower fertility overall = more girls.  These are all parts of the IG sway.

It's obvious that we don't have swaying figured out, that there are still many things we don't understand about how it all works and how it all fits together.  The IG style sway is far from being perfected, I suspect that there are aspects of the IG sway that are useless at best and may even sway in the opposite direction.  But we are closer now than at any point in human history to understanding the mysteries of gender ratio.

Scientific research does not often happen without the support of fellow scientists and large sums of money.  Human gender selection is seen as borderline eugenics by many, which is why it is illegal in most developed countries; therefore, very few medical researchers are willing to tackle the issue, and consequently, funding is scarce.  The research that is being done is coming from different parts of the scientific community, from people studying animals and evolution in particular.   Sometime in the very near future this research will reach a tipping point, and begin to attract the attention of the scientific community at large, and then we will begin to see legitimate swaying techniques being marketed.  Until that point, we are stuck with either muddling it out for ourselves using what scientific information is available, or going high tech.

It's great that some of us are blessed to live in a land where high tech is legal.  And it's great that some of us are able to afford high tech.  And wow, to be able to actually get pregnant with high tech, that's fabulous.  For those of you who got that golden ticket, enjoy it.  I promise you that there are many, many more women out there who do not have access to high tech and many others who have spent every penny they had on repeated high tech cycles and ended up with nothing at the end of it.

It saddens me that some high-tech advocates seem to feel the need to continually assert that swayers are stupid/ignorant/superstitious because we don't make the same choices that you do.  Aside from the legal and financial aspects that prohibit many of us from going the high-tech route, high tech is also extremely invasive, disruptive to marriages and family, morally not a place that some of us care to go, and high tech in itself is very, very far from a guarantee anyway.    

 

Kristin - I didn't mean to attack swayers or even that particular article.  I was just expressing that I *personally* don't believe in swaying.  You do, and that's okay.  But I don't, that's my opinion, and that's okay too.

Not that you or anyone else needs my approval - but I personally do not feel that swayers are "stupid/ignorant/superstitious".  I feel they are people who are chasing a dream, just like I did, but in their own way.  I do not feel superior that I could afford / was morally comfortable with HT.  BUT, I can say that I know HT *works* for GS (or, more accurately, *can* work).  Of course like anything, there are tradeoffs, and pros and cons.

So, I am not a swayer.  And I personally wouldn't recommend it to anyone.  But you and others do.  So we happen to not share the same view on this.  And that's okay!  

I must admit, I found your reply a little disproportionally hostile.  But I am guessing that may be because you / swayers have felt disrespected by others at some point(s) in the past (?)  I truly do not intend to attack anyone or their beliefs.  (Disagree with politely, sure, but not attack.) 

If IG is a place where all views can be shared, then I just wanted to share mine too.  I feel I have done so respectfully.

Hope this clarifies.

GZ

GreenZelda:

I was just expressing that I *personally* don't believe in swaying.  You do, and that's okay.  But I don't, that's my opinion, and that's okay too.

Not that you or anyone else needs my approval - but I personally do not feel that swayers are "stupid/ignorant/superstitious".  I feel they are people who are chasing a dream, just like I did, but in their own way.  I do not feel superior that I could afford / was morally comfortable with HT.  BUT, I can say that I know HT *works* for GS (or, more accurately, *can* work).  Of course like anything, there are tradeoffs, and pros and cons.

So, I am not a swayer.  And I personally wouldn't recommend it to anyone.  But you and others do.  So we happen to not share the same view on this.  And that's okay!  

I must admit, I found your reply a little disproportionally hostile.  But I am guessing that may be because you / swayers have felt disrespected by others at some point(s) in the past (?)  I truly do not intend to attack anyone or their beliefs.  (Disagree with politely, sure, but not attack.) 

If IG is a place where all views can be shared, then I just wanted to share mine too.  I feel I have done so respectfully.

Hope this clarifies.

GZ

I don't think it hurts to try swaying.  I did it twice.I do think if it works you are special . I think it would take alot more woman then on here to prove it was the sway that worked or didn't  work. I heard about this site from a group of woman where I live and none of them  post on here. I don't know why. But they swayed . But only HT is a sure thing and thats if you get pregnant. But everyone lnow that. I have lurked on this board for more then 5 years. I feel for the people that have just stated and really believe it is going to work for them. Good luck to everyone in what they pick.  I think that someone could probably do a  studies to show those studies don't work. But that is like a lot of stuff in life. Two side to ever study .... you know what I mean.

It seems that there will be those who believe in swaying (me... for one) and those who don't.  I am sure a lot of that is defined by personal experience. 

GreenZelda, I love your posts.  I learn from you... a lot. 

Kristen, I agree with you and I also love your posts.  I appreciate them because not only do I learn, but they make me feel good.  :o)

We are lucky, because we get to have such smart women debating issues that matter, atleast to us.  :O)  I really appreciate and love both of you taking time to add your 2 cents. 

It makes my process of gender desire, so much easier to sort out.  I know there are MANY others who feel the same. 

I plan to sway... so I for one, love to hear how well it works.  :o)  Just as someone who plans to go HT would love to hear how well it works.  However, I am also very aware that I am not God and I have no "real" say in this gender equation.  I can do my best, but in the end... I will get what God wants me to have.  For me, coming from my situation... that is something I am okay with.  I just love it that we get so much information to process from people who have been there, and are working through it.  I appreciate you both!!  More then you know. 

Thanks to you both. 

Thanks MyKids and Rebecca.  :)

I too wish you both luck in whatever paths you ultimately choose to pursue.  (And you too, Kristin, and anyone else reading this.  :) )

I know we're all just trying to find our individual paths to happiness.

GZ

Grl4Bekah:

I don't know.  I know enough people that swayed and got their desired gender to believe that there is something to it.  I think that people just assume if it didn't work for them that it can't possibly work. 

We are talking about odds.  If swaying makes your chances 75% of getting what you want... 1 time out of 4 you will fail, even if everything works perfectly.  If you don't miss a single sway factor, and everything goes exactly as you would hope, 25% of the time you will not succeed. 

The same is true for Microsort.  88% of the time things work out perfectly.  However, even with everything going the way GIVF promises that it will... 12% of the time you will get an opposite. 

It is possible, as some of you have said to try to sway 3 or 4 times and get all opposites.  Just as it is possible to go to GIVF and do MS and end up with opposites 3 or 4 times.  Highly unlikely??  Yes... but possible. 

It doesn't mean that MS doesn't work.  It doesn't mean that their statistics aren't accurate.... it just means that sometimes we get unlucky. 

I honestly think that if you believe in 1 method of swaying, even if it doesn't work the first time... you should stick with it.  The chances are great that it will work the next time.  Of course that is easier said then done.  Emotions and dreams and hopes and hormones make it all much harder. 

IMO you can't compare MS to natural swaying as MS has been PROVEN to work where natural swaying has been proven NOT to work. I"m an unbeliever in swaying. I did it three times, religiously and three times I had boys. See what they don't tell you is why they think that certain factors affect sperm? It doesn't make sense, why would a certain toxin or ph affect JUST the male sperm or JUST the female sperm?? The sperm of of the same makeup just different X or Y gene. It just doesn't make SENSE. I read the article and it appeared that alot of data came after the fact, from birth certificates etc. To do a study that confirmed swaying worked you would have to do yrs of charting and following patients, many many patients. But the evidence already shows us that it doesn't work.

My mom swore by shettles, she got her third girl that way (she has 6 sons as well)--I tried it with #3 and really had my hopes up convinced since I followed it to the "T" that it would be a girl. It was not. I tried it again two more times thinking it must work eventually :)

kristindoggirl:

GreenZelda:

Haven't read the article, but I am thinking... if real, successful swaying could be accomplished by lay people, it would have been packaged up and sold to us years ago.

And/or, we'd be seeing much better swaying stats/anecdotes on IG.

So I'll still count myself in the non-believer camp.  ;)

GZ

Wow.  Can I just say that I am stunned, that someone would take time out of their day to run down an article that they had not even read.  This was not a tidbit my granny clipped from the National Enquirer, it was a 28 page article from the Journal of Endocrinology with more than 10 pages of links to studies that support many ideas that we use in swaying.  Low sperm count = more girls.  Lower testosterone and estrogen = more girls.  Lower fertility overall = more girls.  These are all parts of the IG sway.

It's obvious that we don't have swaying figured out, that there are still many things we don't understand about how it all works and how it all fits together.  The IG style sway is far from being perfected, I suspect that there are aspects of the IG sway that are useless at best and may even sway in the opposite direction.  But we are closer now than at any point in human history to understanding the mysteries of gender ratio.

Scientific research does not often happen without the support of fellow scientists and large sums of money.  Human gender selection is seen as borderline eugenics by many, which is why it is illegal in most developed countries; therefore, very few medical researchers are willing to tackle the issue, and consequently, funding is scarce.  The research that is being done is coming from different parts of the scientific community, from people studying animals and evolution in particular.   Sometime in the very near future this research will reach a tipping point, and begin to attract the attention of the scientific community at large, and then we will begin to see legitimate swaying techniques being marketed.  Until that point, we are stuck with either muddling it out for ourselves using what scientific information is available, or going high tech.

It's great that some of us are blessed to live in a land where high tech is legal.  And it's great that some of us are able to afford high tech.  And wow, to be able to actually get pregnant with high tech, that's fabulous.  For those of you who got that golden ticket, enjoy it.  I promise you that there are many, many more women out there who do not have access to high tech and many others who have spent every penny they had on repeated high tech cycles and ended up with nothing at the end of it.

It saddens me that some high-tech advocates seem to feel the need to continually assert that swayers are stupid/ignorant/superstitious because we don't make the same choices that you do.  Aside from the legal and financial aspects that prohibit many of us from going the high-tech route, high tech is also extremely invasive, disruptive to marriages and family, morally not a place that some of us care to go, and high tech in itself is very, very far from a guarantee anyway.    

 

  

 

I don't see HT'ers asserting that swayers are stupid/ignorant/superstitious--but we come here for knowledge, truth, help, support. It it good to know the truth. I don't know an OB out there that would tell a patient that swaying works---that says a lot to me. Whether you chose swaying or HT--it is personal--. but you should go into whatever "method" you chose with your eyes WIDE open. After my first shettles opposite I did some more research and discovered that the method had been disproven (we didn't have the internet back in that day :))---but I still did it again two more times--I thought it was fun and my mom still swore by it :).

I know that as women we want answers--we want to know why we keep having boy after boy after boy, but honestly it is about statistics--we want to believe that we can do something to "fix" it or control it,, that is the world we live in, we have to control everything. Sadly this article does not change my mind, it doesn't give any concrete evidence, it gives "suggestions" or theories. I have to agree with GZ that if there was a method that worked then it would be everywhere--widely published and countries who favor certain genders would be doing it and we would see a sex skew in those countries. I don't want to be negative, I know some feel that swaying is their only option, and for that I'm sorry--but at least go into the sway with knowledge so "if" it does not turn out the way you planned the fall isn't so great

I thought it was a great article.  I was kind of confused about the U theory.  It said that boys are conceived at the beginning and end of the fertile window, and girls in the middle.  Wouldn't that eliminate the 0+12 theory?  Also what was that part about the mans 2nd and 4th fingers? 

I miss you tons, kristindoggirl.    I wish that you were back here more, but I can see with the sway-bashing how it would be hard.  I can only assume that you're fed up and that's why we don't see you anymore.  Maybe I'm wrong.

Like I have said before in another post, this is such a "no win" topic.  Always heated and always divided.  We will always have the women who think it works and the women who think it's bunk.  *Always.*

I can see how you were upset.  You've done a lot of research and to be "dismissed."  Well, that's not cool.

This is one of those topics that if you don't agree, it's probably best to just look at the computer screen and say to yourself, "Well, I still think it's a bunch of crap" rather than add your .  We're all big girls here and can make our own decisions.  High tech is not an option for many, and if they want to go with the swaying methods, then let them.  At the end of the day, you really shouldn't be having another child unless you're ok with your "undesired" gender anyway.  I don't think anyone can argue that with me... 

BeebsNBubbs:

I miss you tons, kristindoggirl.    I wish that you were back here more, but I can see with the sway-bashing how it would be hard.  I can only assume that you're fed up and that's why we don't see you anymore.  Maybe I'm wrong.

Like I have said before in another post, this is such a "no win" topic.  Always heated and always divided.  We will always have the women who think it works and the women who think it's bunk.  *Always.*

I can see how you were upset.  You've done a lot of research and to be "dismissed."  Well, that's not cool.

This is one of those topics that if you don't agree, it's probably best to just look at the computer screen and say to yourself, "Well, I still think it's a bunch of crap" rather than add your .  We're all big girls here and can make our own decisions.  High tech is not an option for many, and if they want to go with the swaying methods, then let them.  At the end of the day, you really shouldn't be having another child unless you're ok with your "undesired" gender anyway.  I don't think anyone can argue that with me... 

 

 You know what BeebsNBububs, you feckin' rock! I could not have put that better myself 

To Kristin-I know I'm quite a new member but I want you to know that your opinions and dedication to research is the reason I became a member of IG and I just want to say thankyou 

I really value the time and effort you've put in. 

 

MyDreamBabi:

In the words of Dr. Potter ..."This sounds voodoo.  This will yield a 50:50 chance of having a boy and a 50:50 chance of having a girl if you are able to get pregnant at all.  It just doesn't work this way folks."

 

Let me say it again:

MyDreamBabi:

In the words of Dr. Potter ..."This sounds voodoo.  This will yield a 50:50 chance of having a boy and a 50:50 chance of having a girl if you are able to get pregnant at all.  It just doesn't work this way folks."

 

This is an interesting article written by the worst of the worst, not just an epidemiologist, but a self described 'retired arm chair epidemiologist' . They specialize in coming to a conclusion and then trying to assemble facts that support it. There are a number of species that will have profound differences in gender ratio of their offspring given certain environmental and social situations. Homo sapiens sapiens is not one of them though.

 That was really interesting...thanks for posting it!!

I have a friend who's husband is a miner, and they have daughters, despite trying for a son. They have decided that the husband "cooks" all the boy sperm (it is hot underground where he works), but I noticed in the article that men who reclaim metals (I assume that means mining) have a higher birthrate of daughters....

Hi, Interesting topic. Thanks so much for posting Kristindogirl. I read the article, but would hardly call the findings convincing. The theories are not well enough documented or tested to be reliable at all. I WISH they were. I WISH there was some magic formula or list of steps to get my daughter, but this article just makes me all the more sceptical. I tried swaying once already and I really believed it would work. I even referred to my unborn baby as 'she' until I found out he was a he. I did everything and thought Id hit the jackpot. How could it fail? But it did and I I was absolutely devastated, more so than if I hadnt swayed at all. I know I was nieve and I should have expected an opposite but there just arent many boys in mine or my DHs family. In fact, girls dominate both sides, so I thought it was odd that I had even one son. I think swaying IS harmful if the person whose swaying doesnt realise there is a good chance it wont work. I only wish I read through the warnings on this website that say that swaying isnt a guarantee. Will I sway again? Yes I will, not because I believe in it, but because if I dont try it again I would regret it if I got another boy. Who knows, maybe it might just work? It should at least work 50% of the time right?

In regards to this quote from the article:

"if the insemination occurs early or late in the fertile window, the resulting offspring is more likely to be male: if insemination occurs in the middle, it is more likely to be female"

Doesn't that contradict the 0+12 theory for a girl?

 *is confused*

so swaying if done right has a 75% chance of working? that means 25% will fail?

I am just young and stupid but that would explain why some fail and so actually dont?

I think honestly that this baby would be a boy if I didnt sway or find this board...I left it up to god 3 times and then when that failed I took my own route...after all "God helps them who help themselves." I swayed...dont feel stupid or selfish about it. Even if it did fail...