My 2 cents on H1N1 from a non-vaccinator

mydreamteam:

dream:

And more people die of the common flu than h1n1

 

That's very true, but 2 things you need to keep in mind:

1. H1N1 probably hasn't peaked yet, so we don't know what the 'real' death tolls are going to look like on a year-to-year basis

2. The deaths are completely different poplulations. Most of the people dying from the seasonal flu are elderly or immuno-compromised. Most of the deaths from H1N1 are healthy, young people, particularly pg women (who, yes, I realize are technically considered immuno-compromised as well). IMO, there's a big difference between someone who's 85 in a nursing home dying of the flu and a perfectly healthy 5 y.o. playing soccer one day and being on a ventilator the next. Sometimes it's less about the number of deaths and more about whether you or someone in your family is at particular risk, kwim? 

Hence why I am still on the fence. I would like to know the autopsy report of that one 13yr old boy who died after hockey practice. I have a feelign there is more to his problems than h1n1

dream:

Hence why I am still on the fence. I would like to know the autopsy report of that one 13yr old boy who died after hockey practice. I have a feelign there is more to his problems than h1n1

 

ITA. I became afraid that I didn't have time to wait on that kind of information as I will spend my entire 2nd and 3rd trimesters in flu season. I suppose it just comes down to a risk/benefits analysis. Still not getting the seasonal flu vax though - one's enough for me this year!

mydreamteam:

Most of the people dying from the seasonal flu are elderly or immuno-compromised. Most of the deaths from H1N1 are healthy, young people, particularly pg women

This is not true. Yes, young and healthy are getting more infected with h1n1, but are not constituting most deaths. two thirds of the deaths of h1n1 in children, were children with cerebral pulsy, epilepsy and other neurological disorders which compromise the immune system or in the least contribute to vitamin D defciency, thus making them more likely to die because of a weak immune system. As far as pregnant women, the latest research also showed that those women who died or ended up in icu from h1n1 complications had other underlying health issues and over two thirds were obese. The statement that healthy people are running around one day and dropping dead like flies the next day from this virus is not true!

mydreamteam:

Sometimes it's less about the number of deaths and more about whether you or someone in your family is at particular risk, kwim? 

I agree with this. if my children, or close family had compromised immune systems, I might consider the shot.

I agree with you 100%. In fact, everything you listed is the reason I do most of the regular childhood vaccinations...I'm relatively sure my kids would be fine if they were to contract, say, measles, but there are those whose systems are compromised enough that they must rely on the herd immunity.

dream:

actually you are right you are not debating you are judging.

No, actually I am not debating or judging. 

The flu is new, the flu vaccine is NOT new.  The only new portion is the flu strain that it prevents.

dream:

And I don't think OP orginal post has anything to do with what you stated.

From the original post: But, I could not live with myself if I got someone else sick, that got really sick. Or my kids--a healthy 13 yr old boy just died in less than 48 hours. Chances are that we will catch this, and the worst is yet to come in the next few weeks.

My statement: 

dream:

wouldn't you feel terrible if you ended up getting H1N1 and accidentally gave it to someone who did end up dying?

I am happy to get it because I am pregnant, working full time, taking classes for my MBA at a large university with a young child in daycare, and can't afford to be sick.

No need to respond to me.  I wasn't judging.  I wasn't debating.  I wasn't attacking.  I don't like it when people are not being nice, and I will not come back to this thread anymore.  I understand you are on the fence.  You made that perfectly clear numerous times.  Good luck to you, and I hope that all of your families do stay healthy.

 

dream:

Because if it did she would feel that way about all vaccinations since in essense vaccinating period is in effect controling the spread of diseases that do kill.

I am totally cracking up here, as this is absolutely untrue! I totally believe that most vaccines work! I think that they do a great job in protecting the masses against polio, diptheria, tetanus and more! Polio was eradicated so nicely due to the vaccine that doctors do not know how to deal with patients suffering from the effects of childhood polio anymore. How cool is that??!

About my family, for those that do not know...we have a very strong history of severe autism in the family. The parents of the family members affected swear it occurred at/around the time of MMR. You can go online and prove it both ways. Just like you can go online and prove that H1N1 vaccine can cause illness or non illness, either way. The joys of the internet. (Hence, why I find Mercola a bit of a conundrum, he is out to sell you his vitamins). The world is flat, pigs fly, and shampoo gives  you cancer. You can prove it all with a few clicks.

Ok, so we decided to delay vaccines, until the boys developed a more mature immune system, SINCE we have a family history. We had to deal, just like we are dealing now, with the whole *darned if we do, darned if we don't" mentality.  What if we caught pertussis? What if the boys caught chicken pox, gave it to Kitty  and developed a co-existing strep infection that went to her lungs and she developed pneumonia? You can play this game out in your head all day long.

My *saving grace* in not vaccinating my boys against measles etc was "herd immunity". Most people are vaccinated, and the likelihood for them catching a vaccine preventable disease is low. What my thoughts in my original post is just that..."herd immunity". I, by that, am protecting those who are not able to get the vaccine. The babies. some of the preggo moms, the people who may be healthy, not get the vax, and develop the illness. The chances of my kids catching measles is low, the chances of my kids catching H1N1 is high.

I wish you all the best in your journeys to make the right decisions for your families, whatever works for you.

 

The 13 yr old that died of H1N1 related complications....

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/10/27/frustraglio-h1n1-toronto-hockey113.html

I have not heard of a single person in hospital from vaccine related complications. This is from my sister who is an ICU nurse, and her dh who is an Emerg nurse, both in a large city, at different hospitals. Nor from my friends who both works as ICU nurses at a local large teaching hospital. They actually are telling me a different story in the number of serious illnesses in young healthy people, ie that it is not just the weak/old who get seriously ill, it is the young and healthy.

Sure, if you got cerebral palsy, or have cystic fibrosis, you sure are more likely to die. That only makes sense. But yet, some of the healthy folks are dying as well. You can easily catch a co-exisitng illness when your immune system is already busy fighting H1N1, that only makes sense.

When I caught Influenza B last year when I was 27 weeks preggo, they asked me to monitor for pneumonia. A nurse at the teaching hospital caught the exact same strain as me, and died from pneumonia...the difference was that she developed MRSA, and antibiotic resistant pneumonia, from being in contact with immuno-compromised patients.

Last words, in all likelihood, your family will probably catch this, and it will likely be mild, and you will all do well. It is very very likely that this is what will happen. Again, I do the vax, to be part of the herd, to protect those who cannot get the vax.

You have to do what is right for you, final words. Not debating that!

mydreamteam:

dream:

Hence why I am still on the fence. I would like to know the autopsy report of that one 13yr old boy who died after hockey practice. I have a feelign there is more to his problems than h1n1

 

ITA. I became afraid that I didn't have time to wait on that kind of information as I will spend my entire 2nd and 3rd trimesters in flu season. I suppose it just comes down to a risk/benefits analysis. Still not getting the seasonal flu vax though - one's enough for me this year!

This is so me Kelly H1N1 will be it for me also

Cherry Mary:

The statement that healthy people are running around one day and dropping dead like flies the next day from this virus is not true!

 

Actually, I said ending up on ventilators, not dropping dead. I'm quite aware H1N1 isn't killing people overnight. 

Cherry Mary:

two thirds of the deaths of h1n1 in children, were children with cerebral pulsy, epilepsy and other neurological disorders which compromise the immune system or in the least contribute to vitamin D defciency, thus making them more likely to die because of a weak immune system. As far as pregnant women, the latest research also showed that those women who died or ended up in icu from h1n1 complications had other underlying health issues and over two thirds were obese.

I would love if you could share your source for this. I've been trying to find this kind of information, but have been unable to locate a break-down like this. The 2/3 number is interesting - I haven't found an analysis of individual cases and underlying conditions anywhere. All I found about the pregnant women was that they often didn't seek treatment in a timely enough manner for anti-virals to be effective, but I can see how that would happen if you didn't know you were really sick right away. I've also heard some people say they got sick, felt they were getting better (and thus didn't seek treatment) and then became *really* sick and by then it was too late w/secondary infections. 

 

Does anyone know when this will be available to the general public?  I feel like it will be next summer and then what is the point of getting then when everyone will be immune to this strain anyway.  LOL!  For some reason I want to get this vaccine even though I have never gotten the flu shot and have never had the flu.  Maybe I am super human?  LOL!  I just don't know if I need it but would like the option to get it and am annoyed that I can't.

Cherry Mary:

two thirds of the deaths of h1n1 in children, were children with cerebral pulsy, epilepsy and other neurological disorders which compromise the immune system or in the least contribute to vitamin D defciency, thus making them more likely to die because of a weak immune system.

This is EXACTLY the reason that we should vaccinate our healthy children....to stop the spread to innocent children with health problems.  They shouldn't have to die!!!  I can tell you that our friend who lost her son to H1N1 last week (yes...he was immune compromised) is wishing that we would all do our part to control the spread of this disease.  He didn't have to die last week. 

I worry that more chlidren will die unnecessarily as a result of the fear tactics being used to keep people from choosing the vaccine.

Michaela:

Does anyone know when this will be available to the general public?  I feel like it will be next summer and then what is the point of getting then when everyone will be immune to this strain anyway.  LOL!  For some reason I want to get this vaccine even though I have never gotten the flu shot and have never had the flu.  Maybe I am super human?  LOL!  I just don't know if I need it but would like the option to get it and am annoyed that I can't.

Everyone who wants it should be able to get it by the spring.  I know this seems like forever away, but that is what they said on Nightline a couple weeks ago.  They also increased the production rates, so it may be sooner.

Southernbelle:

This is EXACTLY the reason that we should vaccinate our healthy children....to stop the spread to innocent children with health problems.  They shouldn't have to die!!! 

well, I completely agree with you, that in an ideal world, we should all vaccinate our healthy children to eradicate or minimize diseases, clearly this has worked in the PAST as in the case of polio. I would love to vaccinate my children against all those things out there like meningitis, measles, etc... unfortunately I cannot trust the pharmaceutical companies and the CDC, its sad but true. Its like, i believe socialism is great, in theory at least, but it doesn't work "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" wrong, it doesn't work like that. Ideally we should all vaccinate our children, ideally we shouldn't have to question what is given to our children in vaccines, but its naive to think that pharmaceutical companies have your children's best interest in mind, who are we kidding.

mydreamteam:

I would love if you could share your source for this.

I will go look them up,... i've been doing so much research, " biased research" I suppose ;-) that I'm not sure where I got what, but will post some links in a min.

ohh.. found i got a lot of info from here, i cant make it clickable though.. http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Nutrition/Vitamins/vitamin_d_and_h1n1_swine_flu_090920091129.html