HRC versus SART - Ex SART and EX HRC girls please add your comments

 Hii there,

I thought I would start a new thread as I know 4 of us are weighing up between SART and HRC. In brief, I researced high tech for 18 months and spent a lot of time talking to Dr Viwat at SART but in the end decided on HRC as i was 39 and we knew it was our only chance at including Microsort. Plus we took our 3 boys so turned it into family holiday including Disneyland, Legoland etc. After 5 months of full on diet and monitoring for swaying we have taken a break as I was feeling very sick from continuous low PH in body and now we've decided to give high tech one last chance mid January 2010.

HRC.

I know they changed the clinich doing there pgd testing (we had 4 embreos bios and 3 were abnormal which we thought was a very high ratio at the time) I noticed better results at HRC after we left and yes, they did change companies HHHMMMmm? when we were there they strongly recommended only 2 probe and not 5 probe. we have now been told they only offer 2 probe. they also strongly recommend the new 24 choromosone testing which apparantely has way less false positives, yet it's very new and I don't know much about it. they are sending us more information. I think dr potter is behind all the research of it - can anyone add more to this. The cost at HRC is around $6900 for IVF, $1200 for ICSI, $2000? for 2 probe plus $400 for aneasthetic plus about $400 for accupunture (VERY expensive) plus drugs.  Last time we felt we didn't really get a good explanation about our results or blood tests. On day 2 after ER we were told my embreos weren't good enough for PGD so was incredibly upset for 24 hours, we went in and they said we can now do PGD and they were all good. Then we only ended up with one and told one wasn't strong enough. I notice that girls going to SART seem to get more information , and there seems to be more options of waiting one more day to let an embreos grow stronger and put them back at day 6 if necessary. I wish I knew more at HRC as I think we would have asked to have that embreo put back in anyway. Accommodation: option of a number of great hotels at Laguna beach which is a 20 minute car drive away or most ladies who go without their kids stay at the Lodge which is a 5 minute walk away.

Microsort offered - this has also come down a lot in price since we were there. We paid $4000 (which at the time was $$5000 aussie almost a cost of IVF in Thailand)

SART

It seems the 2 drs to see are Dr Viwat or Dr Somjat. From all reports it sounds like customer service is very good and they are very friendly.

* what have your local australian Drs told you about Thailands Quality and Assurance? Qand A? what systoms are in place to make sure the highest procedures are in place

*what are the actual costs if you start cycling in Australia?  Dr Somjat quoted me 195,000 baht but are there any hidden costs?

*I was told they only offer 5 probe not 2 probe unless you pay more.  I often wonder about what dr potter says about 5 probe giving too many false positives. I wonder if this is why we see less BFP's from SART?

*sperm spinning - does this affect the quality of sperm in anyway. does anyone know more about this

I have been doing some basic sums and think Thailand is about half the cost of HRC - if anyone can add more to this that would be great.

 of the girls who have got a BFP from SART did you see Dr Somjat or DrViwat?

thanks

Was not impressed with HRC clinic at all.

threelittlemen:

* what have your local australian Drs told you about Thailands Quality and Assurance? Qand A? what systoms are in place to make sure the highest procedures are in place

*what are the actual costs if you start cycling in Australia?  Dr Somjat quoted me 195,000 baht but are there any hidden costs?

*I was told they only offer 5 probe not 2 probe unless you pay more.  I often wonder about what dr potter says about 5 probe giving too many false positives. I wonder if this is why we see less BFP's from SART?

*sperm spinning - does this affect the quality of sperm in anyway. does anyone know more about this

 

 

*1 The first ob I saw at a public hosp in Melbourne told me 'wild horses wouldnt get him to do what I did' but this was based on the higher incidence of HIV infection in Thailand. He told me this before I told him it was for GS. He initially assumed we did Thai IVF because we were there for business or for financial purposes (it's cheaper there!). I dont think this is a concern at Superior. I always felt confident in the nurses and doctors. All needles and so forth were disposed of after I used them and the ones I used were taken out of peel back plastic wrapping. My GP had complete confidence in Thailand's medical system and told me some of the best doctors are there so long as you go to the right places. Superior ART was started by Sydney IVF and therefore follows all the procedures that Sydney IVF do. DR Viwat who started Superior along with Sydney IVF worked at Sydney IVF (correct me if I'm wrong) for 10 years? Sydney IVF has to abide by Australia's strict IVF regulations and therefore Superior ART does too. Apparently they have Sydney IVF representatives travel to Superior every now and then. I always felt that Sydney IVF would not put their name to Supeior ART unless they had complete faith in the clinic. Sydney IVF has an impeccable reputation and would not risk it by supporting and recommending a clinic they had less than complete faith in. If there was a problem at Superior it would reflect on them badly.

*2 I dont know but I do know that all up we prob parted with AU$10,000. TRavel and accommodation not included. I dont think I ever felt we were paying for something I didnt expect. The blood tests we had done at home were covered by medicare and the ultrasounds we had done at home at a private u/s place were partly covered by medicare. This was due to a supportive GP. Also we got our puregon from a chemist who ensured it was covered by Medicare so we saved about a grand there.I dont know how we managed this - I was expecting to pay more.

*3  I never questioned 2 or 5 probe. I figured 5 probe was better because if you do have something to transfer there is a higher likelihood of it sticking.

*4 Interesting. I dont know. We had it done but Somjate didnt seem madly enthusiastic about it and told us it might increase your preferred spermies by 10% but then it might not, so 60/40 rather than 50/50. We went with it cos it didnt cost very much.I wouldnt bother with it if I did it again because I suspect it did effect our spermies hence why we had to ICSI the eggs.

Our doc was Somjate and we were very happy with him.

My final decision was based on distance and prob cost. We wanted to take the kids and I didnt want to deal with them on a loooooong flight. Bangkok is only a 9 hour flight. Also I worried about friends suspecting our intention. Aussies go to Thailand ALL the time so I dont think anyone suspected anything. If we trekked all the way to US I think people might wonder why we went all the way there.

Also I decided I would prefer to pay the same amount for 2 trips to Thailand if we needed it rather than one trip to US. 

Also I liked I could start my cycle with Syd IVF and was going to a clinic they recommended.

 

Thumbs up to everything Plan B said. I was very impressed with Superior ART from start to finish.

Agree with everything Plan B said....we also saw Dr Somjate and although we didn't get a successful result we have no problems with Somjate and will be making sure we see him for our next cycle also. 

As far as follow-up goes, I have sent quite a few emails to Dr Somjate since our unsuccessful cycle and he always responds quickly and answers my questions no matter how strange they are.  I felt very well informed the whole way through and anything I didn't understand or wasn't sure about I felt confident asking the staff about...in terms of the hygiene concerns, I did not for one second feel concerned about the level of cleanliness or practices at SART.  I used to work in a laboratory and my DH is in the medical field also so we both have a good understanding of the levels of cleanliness that should be upheld in sterile environments.  If we had felt any concern we would have walked straight out the door again.  It doesn't feel like a clinic...almost more like a hotel (until you get to the collection and transfer stages and then you get to see the medical side of things...all of their equipment looked new and up with the latest technology).

* We did not discuss SART with any Aussie doctors as we did the whole cycle over there. 

*  Did the whole cycle over there and it worked out around the $13,000 mark for us (I was a low responder with high FSH so had a slightly longer cycle with more monitoring and meds that upped our cost by a bit...we were getting a rate of around 26 baht per AUS$ and its now around the 30baht mark so would be cheaper to cycle now).  I honestly cant work out the exact costs as all our receipts have been lost in transit (which means that some relative could have found them and now knows what we are up to....OMG cant believe we lost these) but it was around the $13K mark excluding travel/accom etc.  I didn't feel the costs were hidden, but be aware it is based upon how well you respond...I was at the high end of the scale so it shouldn't cost much more than our cycle did unless the exchange rate turns to crap of course.

*  I truthfully didn't get into the whole 2probe vs 5 probe debate.  I wasn't offered one or the other.  I was told that what they will do is aneuploidy testing and I was happy with that...I personally would not test for less than what we did.  What are the false positives showing as positive for?  I honestly don't understand this enough. 

*  Not sure about how this affected DH's sperm...we were advised to definitely do it and do ICSI as well due to so few embryos to work with but if we get more eggs next cycle I think I would prefer not to do the wash as it really doesn't increase you chances of one sex over another by terribly much.  If you have large number to work with I personally would prefer as little other messing around with the process as possible.

We will not consider HRC after having gone to SART.  We plan to cycle again if our 2nd cycle is not successful but we just wouldn't have the funds if we were having to pay to go to the US.  After having one unsuccesful cycle already I know there would be a longer gap between our next cycle if we were going to HRC.  With a high FSH already at age 31 I can't afford to wait too long.

It boils down to personal choice and what you are comfortable with but I will be happily going back to SART for our next cycle. 

 thanks everyone for your thorough answers. i only ever seem to hear great things about SART,  i just wish we saw more ladies cycling there with more successful pregnancy's. ive been on this board for 2 years now on and off, but think we've only seem JJN and plan b. Is that correct? im seeing my local dr next week so will also check what she's heard. with pgd, apparantely the more probes you do the higher chance of false positives. HRC have talked most patients out of 3 or 5 probe and now actually don't offer them. it means for example we got 3 abnormal embreos but there's always a chance the testing is wrong and they could actually be perfectly fine. im 40 so im nervous about a much higher chance of abnormal embreos anyway, so we are also looking into the 24 chromosone testing which supposedly gives a ten time more accurate results than fish. Oh it all gets very confusing.

Thailand for us would be a much better option. Is anyone cycling in January 2010

 I suppose when scientists test they err on the side of caution so the more probes they do the higher incidence of finding fault. However you also may find that with only 2 probe there could be problems with the embryo you dont know about therefore leading them to not implant in the first place or to miscarry or to have abnormality at later testing stages.

HKtwinmom got a BFP at Jetanin which I'm certain is a related clinic, partially run by the same people. AND I'm sure someone else will get a BFP soon -  I've got a good feeling

JJN cycled at Sydney IVF only (not Superior ART at all) as there were medical reasons for GS.

Before I did my cycle I wondered whether the long distance travel caused stress and therefore higher incidence of negatives. I still wonder that.

There hasnt been many BFPs at HRC for Australians either - I think Bingo (about 2 years ago)? Anyone else?

 so Plan B does that mean youre the only Aussie to get a BFP out of SART - how many others have cycled there? 

In regards to aussies with BFP from HRC, I must say I only know of boyohboyohboy who cycled not long after me and is now 19 weeks. I hope we see more aussies jumping in this thread to help update. 

Fingers crossed for Wantingmyprincess

you're absolutely right about the 5 probe. this is why the 24 chromosone testing in america sounds great, yet VERY new technology which makes us a tad nervous

you mentioned that you met other aussies ladies at SART when you were there, and they were returning for 2nd cycle's - have you heard any other stories outside in-gender?

threelittlemen:

so Plan B does that mean youre the only Aussie to get a BFP out of SART - how many others have cycled there? 

 

Yes I dont understand. It was all just so easy for me. I wish someone else would fall pregnant there sooooooo badly. And out of the 3 couples I met at SART when I went there none of them fell preg either. It just doesnt make sense. 

WMP left a message on a thread in Microsort/PGD suggesting it wasnt her time this cycle. I just dont understand. It was all such a perfect run so far for her. I hope she's got it wrong and she is preg.

PlanB - Do you mind me asking how long after ET did you fly home?

I cant help but wonder if flying long distances after IVF has an effect on the success rate.

 

trucksndolls:

PlanB - Do you mind me asking how long after ET did you fly home?

 

The next day! We were up at the crack of dawn too - racing off to the airport. I did rest the entire day after the ET in the morning. And DH did almost everything the next day at the airport and on the airplane with the kids. And we got a note from the Dr saying we should have a wheelchair at the airport so we did that. I felt so silly being wheeled around by a Thai airport official but we got to skip all the queues.

I used Jetanin, a clinic popular with the locals...actually, Dr. Somjate is the Sr. RE there and is now also seeing clients at SART (I believe this is the case). Jetanin uses SART for their ER, embryology including PGD, and ET. Dr. Somjate referred me to a colleague, Dr. Kriengchai who became my RE. He is no longer with Jetanin. Dr. K told me not to bother with the sperm sorting procedure. It might up the percentages to 55-45...not worth it. I thought SART was excellent...though one of the nurses annoyed my RE when she told me she was worried I wouldn't get pg because my lining was thin. I asked him about it and he said that it was fine. Other than that, they've been really easy to work with.